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  • #31
    If I was able to vote, I would definately be going for Gore. I see Bush as being a complete idiot, and he's lazy. Gore was still working hard and campaigning all through Mon night and Tues moring, while Bush was sleeping and resting.
    And I personally don't give a damn about what Clinton did, nor do I think anyone should. Yeah, he had an affair, why should that affect any of us, its between him and his family. Yeah, he lied under oath, and THAT is wrong, but think anyone would have in that position, drop the subject already. While Clinton has been in office, the country is in the best shape its been in a very long time.
    I'd also like to point out that I live in South FL, Dade County actually...so the whole delay is our fault

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    • #32
      Originally posted by JimF
      Just for fun, check this out:

      http://www.colonize.com/warp/index.html



      -jim
      lol, that was fun

      Comment


      • #33
        Hmm... my dad found a Clinton warper thing somewhere. Ever seen Clinton with a HUGE afro? Mwwwahaha!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by thetakerfan
          Yeah, he had an affair, why should that affect any of us, its between him and his family.
          First of all he did it in the oval office, making it our business. Brought it into our living rooms thru the media, made the office of the president a laughing matter, no it's not just between him and his family. Should it be put behind us, yes, forgotten, no way! The man's a creep, use's women for his own pleasure and has no respect for the Office of the President. He should have been removed from office.


          Yeah, he lied under oath, and THAT is wrong, but think anyone would have in that position, drop the subject already. While Clinton has been in office, the country is in the best shape its been in a very long time.
          I'd also like to point out that I live in South FL, Dade County actually...so the whole delay is our fault
          He lied under oath and got away with it, what kind of example is that. Your right anyone that did that probably would lie about it. Proves my point! Do you know what would happen to you if you lied under oath?

          As far as the shape of the country, you can attribute that to the Republican Congress and Presdents Regan and Bush, Everyone needs to read their Civics book and be reminded how legislation gets put into law. It takes years to see results in the economy. For the Democrats to claim responsibility for that is really funny.


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          • #35
            um, I do know how legislation works, I'm in AP American Gov't right now. Yeah, it takes awhile for legislation to pass, but not that long

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            • #36
              Originally posted by thetakerfan
              um, I do know how legislation works, I'm in AP American Gov't right now. Yeah, it takes awhile for legislation to pass, but not that long
              Passing it is just the first step, even after it passes and the wheels are set in motion it can take years for the effects of a bad economy to turn around. Anyway, that's politics. No one can do it by themselves, when push comes to shove everyone has to give and take a little to make it work. Hopefully this election, if nothing else will open some eye's.

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              • #37
                Re: to webstyles and JimF

                Originally posted by WebStyles
                Originally posted by Aaron
                Womens rights?? What about a baby's right to live? On the day of conception, that baby is a living being, if women don't want the responsibility of a child, they should be responsible enough to prevent the conception of that child.
                And when a woman gets raped or is an incest victim? I suppose that would be her fault as well? The government has no right to make that decision for anyone.
                I agree that it is tragic that women do get raped and are victims of incest, but two wrongs don't make a right... Aborting a baby that is the result of a rape or incest basically transfers the penalty for the crime from the criminal to the child. That child never did anything wrong, it is, at that point in life, totally innocent and blameless. Abortion merely results in yet one more casualty. Instead of killing babies, why not enforce stricter punishment on the criminals committing the offences??

                Like the government, the mother also has NO RIGHT to murder a child simply because it is inside of her body. The role of the government is to determine whether it is in fact murder, and deal with the situation accordingly. However, as we all know, the government does not currently consider abortion murder.

                Origionally posted by JimF
                One of the main reasons that a woman would abort a child is becuase they have no means of supporting that child. Maybe not emotionally, but monetarily. And that is usually because the father doesn't want to have to support the child.
                Did you forget about adoption?? There are plenty of people out there willing to adopt a babies. Also, there is tons of government aid offered to single mothers every year. And once again, the child should not be forced to pay for the mistakes of the father.

                Origionally posted by JimF
                It must be all those anti-birth control republicans making all those babies and not paying for them. Then they say "HA HA! We're gonna pass laws that won't let you abort the baby".
                That's totally ludicrous.

                Origionally posted by JimF
                Don't blame this on the women; if the men were smart enough, they would prepare accordingly. Don't punish the women because the man is lazy.
                I never blamed it on women, I agree that the man shares equal responsibility in preventing the conception of an unwanted child. NOTE that I said EQUAL responsibility, in situations aside from rape... Naturally when it comes to the case of rape, the woman has no way of preventing conception. However, as stated before, two wrongs do not make a right, and the child should not be punished for the actions of the father.

                Origionally posted by JimF
                I do believe in not allowing abortions after a given amount of time; like I don't think that babies in the third trimester should be aborted, but prior to that, it should be the woman's choice.
                Abortion is abortion, which ultimately, as far as I'm concerned, is murder. It is inconceivable that abortion in the 1st or 2nd trimester is any different from abortion in the 3rd trimester. No matter how you look at it, or try to justify it, in the end it all comes down to depriving a human being of life.

                Origionally posted by JimF
                Men making a law prohibiting abortions is like a bunch of men designing tampons for a living. It just shouldn't be done.

                -jim
                Men aren't the only ones making the laws, there are plenty of women involved in the process as well. And please, DON'T EVER trivialize the taking of a human life by comparing it to tampon design.

                However, men (or women) performing abortions is like men (or women) playing God. It just shouldn't be done...
                Aaron
                aewebdesign

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                • #38
                  All I know is that I have about three hours of sleep since monday (I worked graveyards monday night) and have not accomplished anything on my site since this all started.

                  I cant stop watching and praying that things will work out for the canidate that I support. Besides we are witnessing something today that will be a part of American history in a big way in the years to come.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Re: to webstyles and JimF

                    Originally posted by Aaron
                    However, men (or women) performing abortions is like men (or women) playing God. It just shouldn't be done...
                    No, Men (or women) telling people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies is like playing God.

                    And you know, if Abortion is made to be illegal, it will still happen anyway. But it will happen in back allies, with coathangers instead of at a clinic with a licensed physician. Which would in turn put the MOTHER at risk. So prohibiting abortion would just be killing the mothers. And don't you dare say that that's ludicrous, because people drank during prohibition, and they use drugs now. And lord knows if the drugs people do now were controlled by the government like liquor is, there wouldn't be half as many drug-related deaths.

                    If you think that making abortion illegal is going to magically stop all abortions in this country, you are terribly mistaken. They will continue to happen, though much more dangerously.

                    as much as I respect the right to an opinion, Aaron's opinions are the exact reason this country will go to **** if Bush is elected.

                    -jim

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                    • #40
                      Re: Re: to webstyles and JimF

                      Originally posted by Aaron
                      I agree that it is tragic that women do get d and are victims of incest, but two wrongs don't make a right... Aborting a baby that is the result of a or incest basically transfers the penalty for the crime from the criminal to the child.
                      I am a christian, I am against abprtion, except in cases where the health of the mother is at stake, and in cases of and incest. Most major religions embrace that attitude, even some of the most strict. It is statements like you make that unfortunately make it sound cut and dry which it isn't. In these cases and only these cases it should be up to the mother to make the choice. Most viable religions embrace this attitude.

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                      • #41
                        I support Jim F. I am prochoice because being so entitles those around me to their own opinion, be it prochoice or prolife. I respect prolifers and ask that they respect me in turn, although because of what they stand for this is most likely not going to happen. In my opinion, picketers are the most disrespectful people on this planet who just don't understand the simple law of respecting another's privacy. It is one woman's body we are dealing with and it is NOT ANYONE ELSE'S ASIDE FROM HERS. What she does to her body should not affect you because the baby has not separated from her body. Yes this baby may be the next president and I will not argue that abortion is ending a life. However, these are all hypotheticals and instead of being a president maybe this baby would be the next hitler. You NEVER know and you cannot justify stopping an abortion by saying this life may someday contribute positively to yours.

                        I agree that late abortions (when the cerebral cortex has devloped) should not be performed unless necessary since the child may be able to sense pain. However if one would research the stages of a fetus, you may be convinced that abortion during the trimester would not result in a horrible baby slaughter.

                        quoted from plannedparenthood.com

                        Claim: The 12-week fetus experiences pain.

                        Fact: At this stage of the pregnancy, the brain and nervous system are still in a very early stage of development. The beginnings of the brain stem, which includes a rudimentary thalamus and spinal cord, is being formed. Most brain cells are not developed. Without a cerebral cortex (gray matter covering the brain), pain impulses cannot be received or perceived. Additionally, experts find that newborns at 26-27 weeks’ gestation (24-25 weeks’ fetal age) who survive have significantly less response to pain than do full term newborns.

                        Statement on Pain of the Fetus
                        We know of no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement that a fetus experiences pain early in pregnancy.

                        We do know that the cerebellum attains its final configuration in the seventh month and that mylenization (or covering) of the spinal cord and the brain begins between the 20th and 40th weeks of pregnancy. These, as well as other neurological developments, would have to be in place for the fetus to receive pain.

                        To feel pain, a fetus needs neurotransmitted hormones. In animals, these complex chemicals develop in the last third of gestation. We know of no evidence that humans are different.
                        I do support that the women be responsible and that we highly suggest that she and/or her partner use contraceptives. However contraceptives are not always fool proof nor are they always a choice for every woman (medical reasons being one factor). I do not advocate constant abortion (many times a year for many years) but I do feel better knowing that the woman has an option.

                        I know no matter how much I say there will always be people who are too deep seated in their beliefs to think otherwise. All I ask of them is A) to respect our decisions and b) to keep out of our private lives. Although this is very mean of me I always am tempted to throw tomatoes at abortion picketers. It's just plain wrong to force yourself onto someone else's business and to me that is exactly what they're doing. It's wrong to change someone's opinion to fit your own. It just plain is no matter how "good" your cause.

                        [Edited by SonnetCelestial on 11-10-2000 at 11:40 AM]

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                        • #42
                          BTW to clarify once again..I respect prolifers and if they can respect my decision, WONDERFUL. I am happy we can reach an agreement in one aspect and I will not be angry or sour at all that their opinions differ from mine. I am just dismayed at picketers and how they cannot learn to respect those with different opinions and that in their viewpoint they are not killing a person and are ending a lifeform that has not developed into a person.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by SonnetCelestial
                            I support Jim F.
                            Woo hoo! Maybe I should have run for office...

                            Seriously, if a baby can be extraced from the mother, and not survive on its own, then by no means is that ending a life - it's just not starting one. There's a huge difference. If the baby can live on its own after being taken out, than it is TOO LATE IN THE PREGNENCY, and that is KILLING the baby.

                            You can't kill something that's not alive.

                            Truth be told, if I were to irresponsibly make a woman pregnant, and she decided to have an abortion, I would be dead-set against it. It would be her choice, since she's the one who has to carry it for nine months. But I would not want what would be my child to be aborted. That's the way I feel. I am entitled to that right to choose - and so should be women.

                            People falsely equate "Pro Choice" to being "Pro Baby Killing". That couldn't be farther from the truth. Being Pro-Choice simply means that you want to preserve what should be a fundamental right.

                            I'm pro-choice, but I'm pro-life.

                            -jim

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                            • #44
                              ludicrous
                              I like that word...

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                              • #45
                                I think that the fundamental freedom that we enjoy in the USA is the freedom of choice and the right of assembly to voice our views.

                                Being a Vietnam veteran one of the worst things I personally had to endure was the demostrators. But that was their right, We get crazies on both sides of every issue, but the right to protest what you think is wrong is a fundamental right, but I do not support those that break the law or infringe on the rights of others.

                                What it really comes down to is that we are ultimately responsible for our own actions, I have seen un-born aborted babies, that were supposed to be non-human beings thrown into a basket in a hospital, moving, kicking and crying. Tell me they do not feel pain, not aware of their surroundings, not human beings and I'll tell you you are wrong. Go watch! then come back and tell me different!

                                I will not comment on this again. Thank you all for the discussion...

                                P.S. I didn't volunteer for Vietnam, I didn't sanction it or protest it. So lets not go there, I mentioned it just to reference the protestors rights.

                                [Edited by wajones on 11-10-2000 at 01:51 PM]

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