Who's going to ForumCon?

[Samir]

This post is officially evil.

Please elaborate, or ninjas will be dispatched.

This is just my opinion from what I gathered, but what I learned is that the IB team actually does understand forums. They do understand the pains that we go through.

But they come from a corporate world which is trying to make vB bigger financially, so there's a balance that didn't have to be maintained before. Jelsoft simply had a focus to make vB the best that it could be, knowing that the money would come with the best product. But that only goes so far. That's small business. These guys know big business, and it isn't as intuitive to the rest of us. But after hearing them and their frankness, like my discussions with Adrian, I have a feeling that this is just a rough spot while these guys figure out what we already know, and what Jelsoft already knew about the business.

And they've made their share of mistakes for sure. The licensing slap in the face, releasing vb4 while running vb3 on IB sites, and most recently--signing an agreement with viglink for the IB sites while offering skimlinks for vb customers. But I think in the end, vb will still be around as a real player in the forum software business. I mean, with everyone that I talked to that has a network of sites, vb is the standard, even though vb4 seems to be harder to work with. I think the best game plan for now is to watch what IB does with their own sites for an indication of what's really working.

[Samir]

Ditto. Be them text, audio or video records. Sharing with those not having attended is caring.

I'm working on the uploads. I'm going to try to get this done before I go to sleep tonight. Other work is calling me with a vengence...

[Samir]

Yeah, you've taken a lot of videos

I guess you saw that, lol. I was more worried about running out of batteries than memory card space. I just didn't think I'd shoot over 3hrs of video.

[Andreas]

I guess you saw that, lol.

Yep, I was sitting right behind you

[Samir]

Yep, I was sitting right behind you

And it was great to see you both from overseas. Was the trip worth it? Did you get a chance to meet all vB US attendees?

[Samir]

My Experience at ForumCon 2011

I haven't had a chance to check the videos, so if something seems cut short, let me know.

[Ramsesx]

My Experience at ForumCon 2011

I haven't had a chance to check the videos, so if something seems cut short, let me know.

Thanks for the pictures and videos Samir, would be great if you could add some describing words below each entry.
This one is interesting:
Why have forums not evolved / become mainstream?
- The overall design is very antiquated
- Mostly started for passion and not for business
- Not sexy
- Never covered in media / no mainstream appeal
- Big business not behind it
- Known as a place for us nerds to gather
- Other distractions - Facebook, twitter, blogs

Forums only for nerds? What do you think about this?

[Leadcrow]

- Big business not behind it

...I'd contend their involvement is one of the reasons why forums cease to be fun and die. Implying that somehow hobbyists neglect their communities but "big businesses" don't or can't is laughable.

[Mark.B]

...I'd contend their involvement is one of the reasons why forums cease to be fun and die. Implying that somehow hobbyists neglect their communities but "big businesses" don't or can't is laughable.

I don't think that's quite waht is meant.

I think what's being said is, "big business" rarely run forums. i don't mean ones that exist to gain advertising. I mean support forums that become communities in themselves.

My site grew out of of the old "LineOne/Tiscali forums". LineOne (later bought by Tiscali who ruined the community) was a UK ISP who had a support forum that grew in the late nineties to become a very big and successful forum community at that time. LineOne actively invested in promoting the forum and chat elements of its site, even employing a "community producer" at quite a senior level, and a team of staff and developers behind it.

Other companies were doing similar things and this helped greatly in the "popularising" of forums as a whole.

Nowadays, companies see forums as a risk of litigation etc, and instead promote their Facebook and Twitter sites. Ready made interaction without employing teams of staff and develoeprs at great costs.

So big business is "not behind" forums and they don't get the mainstream push they need.

If that's what is meant - then it is spot on.

[Shamil.]

Rough spot........meh........14 month self inflicted rough spot.

Ouch.

Hopefully I'll be there whenever it is next time, assuming I don't have anything going on during that week.

[Samir]

Thanks for the pictures and videos Samir, would be great if you could add some describing words below each entry.
This one is interesting:
Why have forums not evolved / become mainstream?
- The overall design is very antiquated
- Mostly started for passion and not for business
- Not sexy
- Never covered in media / no mainstream appeal
- Big business not behind it
- Known as a place for us nerds to gather
- Other distractions - Facebook, twitter, blogs

Forums only for nerds? What do you think about this?

I shot the video so I didn't have to take notes.

As far as this particular clip, I think Raymond was trying to recap the history of forums and why they aren't 'the' social media right now even though they've been around forever. I think the nerd point is dead-on. In the 1990s, who was on forums? Not the saavy mainstream like it is today. And that has been a hinderance to acceptance of forums by marketers and advertisers.

[Samir]

...I'd contend their involvement is one of the reasons why forums cease to be fun and die. Implying that somehow hobbyists neglect their communities but "big businesses" don't or can't is laughable.

I don't think forums are dying. Facebook's problems with moderation is one that has been solved in the forum world years ago. And there's a serious backlash going on in fb land. Brand marketers and advertisers like fb because it fits easily into the whole 'blanket' marketing strategy, and makes it easy to quantify the results and show their boss. Forums aren't so easy to penetrate, but have a much deeper impact than a blanket ad ever will. And the smart marketers are figuring this out.

Personally, I don't see the point in a hobbyist spending a grand a month out of pocket to run a large forum with no ads. I mean, that's the purest sense of a grassroots community, and you'll have no 'corruption' from business principles. But I don't see the point in this. Forums are work, and why would you pay to work and get nothing but a 'good feeling' in return. I don't know about the others out there, but it's not enough for me. I don't mind the time, but it better pay its own bills.

Big business takes this a step further by trying to structure a forum as a viable, sustainable business. Forums die all the time, and a lot of it is due to a hobbyist not having a long term vision or the skills to know how to sustain a business. Big business does bring this expertise to the table, but at a price. It's a balance that every forum network out there is learning about. No one is an expert in this yet.

Now, there is the side of it when big businesses have no idea what they're doing and walk in and ruin a community. But big businesses are known to make that mistake when acquiring other types of businesses as well, so that shouldn't be a shocker.

[Samir]

Nowadays, companies see forums as a risk of litigation etc, and instead promote their Facebook and Twitter sites. Ready made interaction without employing teams of staff and develoeprs at great costs.

This is so true, and one of the takeaways for me that is reinforced by my experience. One of the presentations, Dan's I believe, had a slide that illustrated this well (which I don't believe I got a video or picture of). And very effectively illustrated how marketers look at the various outlets for their message.

On the far left was a shot of the Gucci store, representing Facebook and Twitter, the sheik, hip, sexy place to be.

In the middle was a shot of Wal-Mart, which represented some of the more traditional banner ads and such (from what I recall). Lots of people, lots of activity.

And on the right was a shot of a flea market, which represented forums. And Dan's reinforcement was clear on this--this is how most marketers view forums.

Personally, I don't think companies are spending less with their Facebook and Twitter developments, but actually more. For the cost of some of these campaigns, they could get much more interaction by tapping into forum communities that are close to their core. But most marketers aren't aware of this...yet.

I strongly believe that in the next few years, this is all going to change because of the introduction of real-time ad exchanges (which curiously weren't even touched-on during the conference). Once a major shift to these exchanges are complete, marketers are going to start seeing that their highest return on marketing isn't coming from fb and twitter, but from forums as the ads find their way to the right place at the right time. And then there will be a shift in attention to forums and communities, where you can spend less and get much more. I think the sideways economy will help this too as companies aren't going to be able to budget the same amount for their fb and twitter campaigns as last year, but will still expect the same results.

[Samir]

You're joking right?

Big business, small business, it doesn't matter. If your product doesn't have quality, you ARE NOT going to make money! Period.

And yes, you're right. IB needs to learn ("figure out") what quality, passion for a product and customer trust is all about and turn that into success.

Rough spot........meh........14 month self inflicted rough spot.

Scott

Nope. This is the fundamental behind business, but for some reason it only applies to small businesses. I've seen large businesses that don't know what the heck they're doing survive for years. They come out with a hot product once in a while and it carries them over. But they're still around when a small business doing the same thing would be gone.

Case in point, do you think Jelsoft would have survived if they released vb4 and suffered the same resulting backlash from their customers?

I think IB has an understanding of quality, passion for a product and customer trust, but they don't know how it applies to this business model, because it's a completely new one. I mean, how many companies out there have a network of forums as well as a forum software company under one umbrella? It's a unique challenge. And now that I have a better understanding of the challenge, I get a lot of what's happened behind the vb software product. Not that it changes anything, but it does explain a few things.

[Lizard King]

Does anyone have transcripts ?