What will happen to .org?

[anthonyparsons]

Hey Paul... sorry, I just tossed the last statement in to ensure no offence is taken from anything I have said. Don't worry, I don't expect people to agree with me either, and am quite respectful of others opinions. That is what makes the speech so great... that we all get to have our own opinion.

I think MRGTB said it best above, as to what I was trying to portray also. Thanks MRGTB +1

[Trevor Hannant]

*pops his head up* Run a vB4 version and a vB3 version... *hides again*

[[email protected]]

I had that thought too Trevor lol. I can see what the majority of people are saying here but vb.org isn't trying to sell the product and it's not used as a demonstration site. I think keeping it in a mature state is the teams primary concern and personally I don't blame them. Nothing against VB4 (love it actually) but it does have some way to becoming a mature product and I think that's half the fun for me. Going to vb.org and being able to search efficiently and find mods or articles that I want is my primary concern as well. And let's face it, VB3 is a bit of a classic if you ask me. It had a good life and it's still very effective. Why get rid of it just yet?

Iit may be some extra work but what about setting up 2 sites.. vbulletin3.org and vbulletin4.org??

[beishe8]

Iit may be some extra work but what about setting up 2 sites.. vbulletin3.org and vbulletin4.org??

and vbulletin5.org and vbulletin6.org and....
OMG... Few years and they go bankrupt because of the domain name fees!

[wcguy]

As someone who in theory is supposed to be a professional marketer, I believe all of the customers here are correct, and the company spokesmen are dead wrong.

I own 4 licenses of vbulletin NOT because of .com, but because of .org. Without .org, I would not have purchased .com.

Since your whois records have been privatized, a lookup of your dns shows that both have the same nameservers. Not a smoking gun, but even the mail records are the same.



ns1.dvpne.com. [67.201.17.8] [TTL=172800] [US]
ns2.dvpne.com. [207.212.174.50] [TTL=172800] [US]


ns1.dvpne.com. [67.201.17.8 (NO GLUE)] [US]
ns2.dvpne.com. [207.212.174.50 (NO GLUE)] [US]

I therefore conclude that both domains are controlled by the same person/company, and therefore both are different sides of the same coin.


It is quite obvious management called the staff into the room and said "We should upgrade .org to 4.0", and the staff said....

"Jeff isn't around anymore, and no one knows how to replicate X"
"When we tried to upgrade, we lost all of X data that cannot be replicated"
"When we upgraded, the site ran so slow, as it to be unusable, and we can't figure out why"
"We don't have the staff to do it. Either hire more programmers to work on the import into a new setup and duplicate the mods or stop fixing bugs. "
"We estimate it will take 5 FT coders @$40/hr to do the job in 4 months". Total cost $120,000." We can live with 3.8.
"The new 4.0 software has features that actually prohibit us from implementing X hack. That's our most used and most loved feature of the site".

So the end result comes down to customers believing either

1. It can't be done. No one knows how.
2. It costs too much money.

But not admitting to 2, the technocrati believe in 1.

You are destroying your credibility by not addressing the issue.

[Zachery]

You're mor or less wrong on both counts

[Paul M]

As someone who in theory is supposed to be a professional marketer, I believe all of the customers here are correct, and the company spokesmen are dead wrong.

You can believe what you want, that is your right. You believe incorrectly tho .....

Since your whois records have been privatized, a lookup of your dns shows that both have the same nameservers. Not a smoking gun, but even the mail records are the same.

ns1.dvpne.com. [67.201.17.8] [TTL=172800] [US]
ns2.dvpne.com. [207.212.174.50] [TTL=172800] [US]

ns1.dvpne.com. [67.201.17.8 (NO GLUE)] [US]
ns2.dvpne.com. [207.212.174.50 (NO GLUE)] [US]

I therefore conclude that both domains are controlled by the same person/company, and therefore both are different sides of the same coin.

Brilliant ! You worked out that the vbulletin.org domain is owned by IB, however, everyone already knows this.

It is quite obvious management called the staff into the room and said "We should upgrade .org to 4.0", and the staff said....

1. "Jeff isn't around anymore, and no one knows how to replicate X"
2. "When we tried to upgrade, we lost all of X data that cannot be replicated"
3. "When we upgraded, the site ran so slow, as it to be unusable, and we can't figure out why"
4. "We don't have the staff to do it. Either hire more programmers to work on the import into a new setup and duplicate the mods or stop fixing bugs. "
5. "We estimate it will take 5 FT coders @$40/hr to do the job in 4 months". Total cost $120,000." We can live with 3.8.
6. "The new 4.0 software has features that actually prohibit us from implementing X hack. That's our most used and most loved feature of the site".
<numbers added by me for below>

Given that the vb.org staff dont reside at IBHQ (or even in the USA in some cases) then being called into an office would be somewhat difficult.

Also ;

1. "Jeff" (who wrote/re-wrote most of the vb.org custom code) is still very much around.
2 & 3. We havent tried to upgrade.
4. Well, you could argue that the staff are short of time, given we are volunteers, thats about as close as you get.
5. It will take a lot of work, but I think you have over estimated somewhat.
6. Nope.

So the end result comes down to customers believing either

1. It can't be done. No one knows how.
2. It costs too much money.

1. It could, and we know how.
2. Well thats impossible for me to say, tho your figures above are nonsense.

You are destroying your credibility by not addressing the issue.

What issue exactly ?

What version vb.org runs is not an issue, its not affecting you, or anyone else, in any way.

[borbole]

Brilliant ! You worked out that the vbulletin.org domain is owned by IB, however, everyone already knows this.

Ahahahaha, that is some brilliant dedective work that that guy did. lol Paul ahahahahaha.

(sorry for the off topic remark but I found that very hilarious )

[wcguy]

That's what I hate about the internet. I keep forgetting the freaking <sarcasm> rant </sarcsasm> tags....

Although, I do feel honored to being quoted by TBTB, so score one for me.

Please enclose my morning post in them...

I'll try again.... This time with the appropriate emotional overtones.

<pompous attitude meant to poke at programmer sterotype>
FACT: you haven't done it (upgraded), yet you expect your customer base to do it? Not a good attitude.
FACT: In the programming world, almost anything can be solved with skill and/or money. What do you lack?
FACT: You are being assailed by your customer base almost hourly about the difficulty in using/ upgrading to 4.xWhy aren't you eating your own cooking?
FACT: If YOU had to live with the problems/issues with your own product, the thinking of the customer base goes, then maybe, just maybe, bug fixes would be out fast and furious.
FACT: Denying a yin/yang link with .com/.org is disengenious at best.

</end pompous tonal qualities>

Your best solution is also the least expensive.

Create a list of mods that need to be done to duplicate the functionality of vbulleting.org in 4.0. Use the MOTM process to vet each mod. Give away a license to each mod developer chosen for that mod's functionality.

Within a few weeks, you could have all of the mods tested and installed across a significant portion of the user base, and then you could import the old posts into the new version. (BTW I am too old to not expect that you and probably a zillion others haven't already proposed this solution and shot it down, for whatever reason. But I am too lazy to search for the appropriate threads. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.)

<reverse psychology, just messing with your head on> Unless of course, it can't be done. </end reverse psychology>

Hey 4.0 is working fine for me, that's because I jsut use it to play with so I know what I am talking about when I am working with my real website developers, who are also a little cranky trying to get migrated over. So while I personally could care less what forum you run .org on, I still have to hear their highly paid griping and excuses of why it isn't finished yet.

[Paul M]

Last try.

<still pointing this out, does anyone take note, mode>
FACT: you haven't done it (upgraded), yet you expect your customer base to do it? Not a good attitude. FACT: vbulletin.org doesnt have customers.
FACT: In the programming world, almost anything can be solved with skill and/or money. What do you lack? This is a question, not a fact. Answer = Nothing.
FACT: You are being assailed by your customer base almost hourly about the difficulty in using/ upgrading to 4.xWhy aren't you eating your own cooking? Customers ? See (1)
FACT: If YOU had to live with the problems/issues with your own product, the thinking of the customer base goes, then maybe, just maybe, bug fixes would be out fast and furious. We dont have any issues with OUR products.
FACT: Denying a yin/yang link with .com/.org is disengenious at best. Huh ?
</mode>

If it hasn't sunk yet in then I give up.



(BTW, Who or what is TBTB ?)

[Quillz]

i dont want vb.org on vb4.

vb3 has a decent look. i dont know why i m saying this, maybe i am a vb3 blind lover

Because it's absolutely impossible to skin vB4 to look like vB3.

[[email protected]]

Geezuz, last time I checked Vbulletin.com is using their own product and update it to the latest version even before they release it. Vbulletin.org is doing what it's designed to do at the end of the day. Provide modding information for peeps like ourselves. I don't really care how it looks, as long as it's able to communicate the information effectively that I'm after.

[Lynne]

If it hasn't sunk yet in then I give up.

I gave up months ago when we constantly got the "why doesn't vb.org upgrade to x.x?" questions over on vb.org. People's obsession over what version vb.org is running is just something I don't understand. If vb.org was advertised to be a showcase for vb's latest software, then I would understand their obsession with vb.org's appearance/version, but all vb.org is supposed to do is be a site to go to and get help with modifying your site. It does that just fine.

[Pamela]

Your kind of missing the point though Paul. It's all about giving a positive impression about vB4 (the new flagship software). It doesn't make sense to continue using vB3 on vBulletin's sister site, when vB3 will soon be obsolete in the future. It just doesn't give a good impression in general to see another vB owned site still using it when vB4 is out and the main product being sold.

Does it ?

I completely agree!

It...to me *personally* as a licensed customer...seems to undermine their new flagship product by not upgrading .org to vB4. Gives a bad impression. Yes .org is highly customized...so are a lot of our boards. Does that mean none of us who have highly customized boards should bother upgrading to vB4 either? Is it too hard and complicated to upgrade to this new software? That's not a good selling point...

You see, when you say what difference does it make what version .org is on...then it begs the question why does it matter what version ANY of us are on. So why then should any of us buy their new software if it doesn't matter. Strange way to sell a product!

[Paul M]