Former vBulletin lead developer Kier Darby to develop new forum software?

[Shamil.]

Gladius, maybe you haven't noticed, but there are significant changes in the way XenForo is, and vBulletin. Right now, all I want is a functioning system, that is not plagued with issues (both corporate and code).

I'm not a fan of the way IB is doing business, and from my point of view, everything here is management-driven. From a user's POV, the software looks more decent, easier on the eye, and is refreshing. Additionally, it doesn't follow the classic model which most forums are hung on. One of the key to developing software is to have experience in the industry and software. I don't fully believe that IB has reached this potential. Furthermore, the developers are building on the successes of vBulletin 3. We're seeing a shift in the crucial paradigm model. The software is built more of form over functionality, but the basics components are already in place. The software presents an alternative way of doing things, and for most of the part, is successful. If you're this pessimistic, then Apple would be no-where with the iPhone.

The software in its current state is always improving. Since there is complete open feedback, the pace seems faster, but additionally, potential clients and customers are very positive. The general atmosphere is positive, which is more than can be said about this board.

Remember that more code and more developers actually slow things down, significantly. More cooks spoil the broth, as to say. I currently have 8 vBulletin licenses. Floris has 20+ and many others have as many or few. Many of us multi-license holders haven't upgraded to vBulletin 4. I certainly have no intention of updating these licenses, and nor do many of these people. I will invest my money into positive development.

The business background is taken care by Ashley Busby. Remember him? From what I can remember, the support system will be built either custom, or using a pre-known software, however, the general responsibility will not be shifted from people to software, e.g. Jira.

I should also add that the number of lines and coding hours dedicated to a piece of software is not indicative of its ability, potential and performance.

[pspmodandcfw]

This whole thread needs a reality check... vB's biggest and best competition with a full suite and a bucketload of improvements in various areas over vB is still not good enough for pretty much all of you still posting here to consider switching over to, yet Kier's bare-bones pre-alpha is enough to start gushing over and talking about switching to? Heck, if he had a whole team of 10+ working on it it'd take him over a year just to match v3, let alone expand on to the point of v4. Not to mention the bugs - ironing the bugs in the millions of lines of code takes YEARS and thousands of people using the software, constantly reporting bugs. And where's the ImpEx equivalent, the business background, support system, staff... none of this is even remotely realistic unless an investor with a big sack of cash steps in to fund Kier's baby.

Call me pessimistic, but the best that Kier & co. can hope for is is a niche product that only his biggest fans will buy and possibly those who need a product that just happens to match his design and feature philosophies that you'll only start seeing glimpses of over the next few years as features start being added. There are already around 30 PHP-based forum solutions on the market, so just finding a niche not already filled would be hard enough.

Sorry guys, but this ain't 1995. Kier & friends could code day and night for the next decade and never catch up to vB or IPB. The romantic days of solo/duo software developers scoring international hits are long gone.

(And just to clarify, I'd like nothing more than to have an alternative to v4. But I'm not even that hot on IPB, let alone xen, which at best needs another 5 years to be anything more than a curiosity to watch.)

You would think. As long as there is a creative mind behind something, there is no limit to what they can reach.

[AmericanForum]

This whole thread needs a reality check... vB's biggest and best competition with a full suite and a bucketload of improvements in various areas over vB is still not good enough for pretty much all of you still posting here to consider switching over to, yet Kier's bare-bones pre-alpha is enough to start gushing over and talking about switching to? Heck, if he had a whole team of 10+ working on it it'd take him over a year just to match v3, let alone expand on to the point of v4. Not to mention the bugs - ironing the bugs in the millions of lines of code takes YEARS and thousands of people using the software, constantly reporting bugs. And where's the ImpEx equivalent, the business background, support system, staff... none of this is even remotely realistic unless an investor with a big sack of cash steps in to fund Kier's baby.

Call me pessimistic, but the best that Kier & co. can hope for is is a niche product that only his biggest fans will buy and possibly those who need a product that just happens to match his design and feature philosophies that you'll only start seeing glimpses of over the next few years as features start being added. There are already around 30 PHP-based forum solutions on the market, so just finding a niche not already filled would be hard enough.

Sorry guys, but this ain't 1995. Kier & friends could code day and night for the next decade and never catch up to vB or IPB. The romantic days of solo/duo software developers scoring international hits are long gone.

(And just to clarify, I'd like nothing more than to have an alternative to v4. But I'm not even that hot on IPB, let alone xen, which at best needs another 5 years to be anything more than a curiosity to watch.)

This ain't 1995 and times are a changing ... in can be argued that VBs biggest competitor is not another forum developer but Facebook.

[Shamil.]

It's currently faster, and more innovative than vBulletin. At the rate, it's going much faster than over here, but then again, I'm not seeing proactive development, only behind the scene.

[Boofo]

I need to get the code I used to David and let him handle it from there.

Well, actually, I found the one-line comma code fix and Mert helped me implement it so it took both of us, to be honest.

[Lionel]

it still needs to find the right direction and continue going that way, instead of getting side-tracked in the bug territory.

You handed them the way: jQuery!

[Boofo]

I was among those to be very upset with 4.0. I am a developer and I can tell you that as far as I am concerned, 4.0.4 put vB back on the map. In fact I am really impressed with the amount of flexibility that I now have. All my scripts tremendously beneficiated from vB4.0.4

Granted some bugs remained. But what do you expect from over hundreds of thousands lines of code?

I think I benefited more than any of my hacks as I have had to learn some things in vb 4 that I took for granted in vb 3. It may be back on the map, but it still needs to find the right direction and continue going that way, instead of getting side-tracked in the bug territory.

[Boofo]

virtually every IE issue has a solution with jQuery.

Exactly! The comma issue can be fixed with one line of code. I did it for one of my hacks and it works right in ALL browsers.

[steven s]

Only because xF is not out of the oven yet.
Even though I have 3 licenses, I don't see myself moving on from what I have seen so far.
Time will tell.

[Lionel]

Back on the map? It's being erased from the map.

Apparently not for you. You still find your way here

[steven s]

I was among those to be very upset with 4.0. I am a developer and I can tell you that as far as I am concerned, 4.0.4 put vB back on the map. In fact I am really impressed with the amount of flexibility that I now have. All my scripts tremendously beneficiated from vB4.0.4

Granted some bugs remained. But what do you expect from over hundreds of thousands lines of code?

Back on the map? It's being erased from the map.
Some bugs? I fear installing every update. And I use the word update, not upgrade.
After installing vB4 on one site, my main vB3 hobby site was never going to be subjected to v4. I'm glad to see xF progressing. There is hope.
I will say, Adrian is doing a better job at communication and getting IB back on track than anyone else. But it's going to take a lot to restore confidence.

[ManagerJosh]

I would not be quick to put the blame on the new developers. They are good. However they seem to have no real experience with vB unique coding structure. So they are trying to implement their expertise to it, and therefore messing things up.

The only restriction that I see for vB is the lack of flexibility in styling. Boy oh boy, does my mouth water when I go to a Joomla site like RocketThemes!

Sorry that was a misunderstanding on my part. I meant there's been departures of new developers as well.

[Lionel]

and new developers

I would not be quick to put the blame on the new developers. They are good. However they seem to have no real experience with vB unique coding structure. So they are trying to implement their expertise to it, and therefore messing things up.

The only restriction that I see for vB is the lack of flexibility in styling. Boy oh boy, does my mouth water when I go to a Joomla site like RocketThemes!

[ManagerJosh]

I cant give reputation to you again, so thank you very much for your view on this. I know you deliver quality work and advanced products, so I see your comments in this regard. What you describe is exactly what I have planned: new content types for vb.

Regarding XF: I like it a lot, but it will take a lot of time to mature. I have outgrown vbulletin its capacities, so will surely take time before XF has the functions that I need. Very promising though.
vbs rewrite also takes a lot of time. Especially with the recent departures of old vbulletin devs.

and new developers

[Alfa1]

Alfa1, the ones that come to mind: I have 2 nice products. In 3.8.0 they required multiple file edits due to the fact that there were no hooks. Still there are no hooks, but with new attachment system all those file edits are no longer necessary

In my support system, I am able to upload files using new attachment system (incorporating it) with just 3 lines of code.

My review system now barely adds one or two queries in showthread.

Tabs and lightbox can be used anywhere. Lightbox no longer requires that you use attachment.php (you can trick it) and Tabs could be applied anywhere. In fact I am currently having a ball with it with a greeting cards script.

Soon I will be creating my own contenttype for another major script. Once you do, then your script is not just part of vB, it becomes vB

Believe me. When 4.0 came out I had stopped developing for vB and switched to IPB and started to renamed all my scripts, removing vb. vBcart became iCart for example. When 4.0.4 came out, I dropped IPB real fast. The time it takes me to create a script is 75% faster now.

And I also see an increase in customers using 4.0.4

I encountered numerous problems. But most of them came from IE. All had workaround.

Is vB perfect? No! But show me one script which is.

From the very beginning, I saw that they were heading the Joomla way.

I like what I see with xenForo, mostly because they adopted the jQuery model which in my opinion is more powerful than the Yahoo one. But they still have long way to go.

Eventually, once they start adding features to it, it will be years to see it becoming mature.

I cant give reputation to you again, so thank you very much for your view on this. I know you deliver quality work and advanced products, so I see your comments in this regard. What you describe is exactly what I have planned: new content types for vb.

Regarding XF: I like it a lot, but it will take a lot of time to mature. I have outgrown vbulletin its capacities, so will surely take time before XF has the functions that I need. Very promising though.
vbs rewrite also takes a lot of time. Especially with the recent departures of old vbulletin devs.