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Former vBulletin lead developer Kier Darby to develop new forum software?

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  • Originally posted by dieKetzer View Post
    im not sold on xenforo yet.
    i still have vivid memories of the kier days of vb3, the lack of communication, resistance to feedback, the stagnation... many of the things people complain about, such as the compartmentalisation of vb, overblown permissions, convoluted admincp, etc, predate IB. i think IBs ham-fisted management has made the old devs into christ figures, but my memory isnt nearly so kind.
    reading over xenforo, it seems kier and co are again taking the stance they they know better what my communities want, in effect managing by proxy. it appears many things are done in a way simply to make them different; changes for the sake of change. i am having a hard time with that. imo if an upstart wants to knock vb off its perch it needs to create the board vb users have been begging for for years. the guys at xenforo should know what that board is, if they had ever paid attention. instead they are trying to reinvent the wheel.
    I remember those days well. Is history going to repeat itself again?
    vBulletin - Sometimes, I'm just like, Wow, and then I'm like, Whoa, and then I'm like, Damn.

    vBulletin.org's ol' Moderator

    I have a lifetime terrorist hunting permit - #091101

    chmod a+x /bin/laden -- Allows anyone the permission to execute /bin/laden

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    • Originally posted by dieKetzer View Post
      im not sold on xenforo yet.
      i still have vivid memories of the kier days of vb3, the lack of communication, resistance to feedback, the stagnation... many of the things people complain about, such as the compartmentalisation of vb, overblown permissions, convoluted admincp, etc, predate IB. i think IBs ham-fisted management has made the old devs into christ figures, but my memory isnt nearly so kind.
      reading over xenforo, it seems kier and co are again taking the stance they they know better what my communities want, in effect managing by proxy. it appears many things are done in a way simply to make them different; changes for the sake of change. i am having a hard time with that. imo if an upstart wants to knock vb off its perch it needs to create the board vb users have been begging for for years. the guys at xenforo should know what that board is, if they had ever paid attention. instead they are trying to reinvent the wheel.
      i will def keep one foot in the water over there, but i reckon my future is at ipb.
      There is a difference between reinventing the wheel and finding a better way to accomplish something.

      Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dieKetzer View Post
        im not sold on xenforo yet.
        i still have vivid memories of the kier days of vb3, the lack of communication, resistance to feedback, the stagnation... many of the things people complain about, such as the compartmentalisation of vb, overblown permissions, convoluted admincp, etc, predate IB. i think IBs ham-fisted management has made the old devs into christ figures, but my memory isnt nearly so kind.
        reading over xenforo, it seems kier and co are again taking the stance they they know better what my communities want, in effect managing by proxy. it appears many things are done in a way simply to make them different; changes for the sake of change. i am having a hard time with that. imo if an upstart wants to knock vb off its perch it needs to create the board vb users have been begging for for years. the guys at xenforo should know what that board is, if they had ever paid attention. instead they are trying to reinvent the wheel.
        i will def keep one foot in the water over there, but i reckon my future is at ipb.
        No offense, but part of "those days" were under the Internet Brands management and leadership.
        ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
        Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

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        • Originally posted by borbole View Post
          And the way I see it, IB has no reason to worry. vB is a very established platform and it is getting better and better with each version.
          Yes, vB is improving - but vB isn't only a forum anymore, and it seems that with so many features to improve, each of the elements are improving slower than they could. All the time spent on fixing CMS and Blog issues could have been used on developing the forum, eg. by introducing a way to control styles without needing to deal with both CSS and Stylevars, or a way to figure out which Stylevar that controls what element without a lot of steps (including learning Inspect Element in Firefox or Safari.

          Of course it helps a lot to have been at the core of the vB team (even if this means that the same people are also responsible for introducing many of the things in vB that now needs to be changed). And while features may be simple to add, the thing that IMO could make any new forum software shine would be a user interface (for end users and especially for admins) that would be a lot simpler and not require as many steps as eg. editing/creating skins in vB4 requires. If the XenForo developers work on a solution which makes it easy to change colors/fonts etc without having to deal with both Stylevars and CSS, and which would require all these steps just to figure out which parameter to edit, they'll have a brilliant product.

          But it will still take a lot of time before they have implemented a feature set rivaling vB, and who knows what the vB team is working on while the XF team is working on adding all the features vB already has. Since XF has a more or less public Alpha, IB could even add many of XF's features (Follow Users/"Your News Feed", Personal Conversations with multiple users, Static Pages etc) to vB even before XF has reached Beta or a Release Candidate.
          The Vegan Forum

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          • Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
            No offense, but part of "those days" were under the Internet Brands management and leadership.
            Sorry,Josh, but the larger part of those days were there much earlier.
            If they were not there, IB could not have a chance to purchase vB.


            vB5 is unequivocally the best forum software, but not yet...

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            • vbulletin already has lots of features, and some of xfs "new ones" are also available in vbulletin, although in a different implementation:
              - Static Pages are possible with vbulletin cms.
              - The Follow Users workaround is to put the user on your contact list (including friendship system, not sure if xf has that)

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              • Originally posted by beishe8 View Post
                Sorry,Josh, but the larger part of those days were there much earlier.
                If they were not there, IB could not have a chance to purchase vB.
                I somewhat disagree.

                December 2002 - Kier becomes Lead Developer
                March 2004 - vBulletin 3.0 released
                September 2004 - vBulletin 3.5.0 released
                August 2006 - vBulletin 3.6 released
                July 2007 - Internet Brands acquires vBulletin
                November 2007 - vBulletin 3.7 released
                January 2009 - vBulletin 3.8 released
                December 2009 - vBulletin 4 released

                I've personally witnessed a big communication breakdown around late 2007. But that's my personal observation and take
                ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
                Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

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                • The suggestions forum became more or less completely ignored years before that. Not that it's anything but a black hole now, but feature stagnation and lack of vision and innovativeness have been plaguing vB years before IB came along.
                  Former endorsement revoked. You know the saying - one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gladius View Post
                    The suggestions forum became more or less completely ignored years before that. Not that it's anything but a black hole now, but feature stagnation and lack of vision and innovativeness have been plaguing vB years before IB came along.
                    There were so many suggestions, that of course it would be hard to include them all. But there was nearly no feedback to suggestions which was not good.

                    Lots of people went, right. But there are also new people involved in vbulletin as as Adrian, which is nice!

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                    • Well, in any case, I will definately wait with the upgrade until I see where XenForo is going, and I suspect many others will too, but we'll see...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gladius View Post
                        The suggestions forum became more or less completely ignored years before that. Not that it's anything but a black hole now, but feature stagnation and lack of vision and innovativeness have been plaguing vB years before IB came along.
                        Yeah! I wish people would stop keep acting as though everything was a bed of roses before IB came along. Because for the last few years it wasn't, it was stagnant. vBulletin was going nowhere really, and was the main reason why IPB caught-up and became Number 1 today. When vBulletin was sold, they knew things where sliding fast away from them with IPB still being so creative with new add-ons and a full rewrite in the works for IPB 3. I think that's why they sold to IB at that time, before the company worth and re-sale value started to decline. It was the right time to sell!

                        And I don't think Internet Brands understood all this, and knew enough to realise just what they was getting into really when they first purchased Jelsoft.
                        Last edited by MRGTB; Tue 3rd Aug '10, 3:39am.

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                        • vB5 is unequivocally the best forum software, but not yet...

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                          • In my opinion, what really put vb to the top was vb.org. Unfortunately they have a strange policy of preventing independent coders to advertise their products, although this could have translated into more sales for them. The world is not made of IB and Xenforo developers only. I think the company that will allow external developers to show users how they can extend their forums will be the winner. I sincerely hope that xenforo will not take the vB stance about that.

                            Comment


                            • I had to search for a year to find all commercial addons, coders and desginers available. IB and Jelsoft have been very effective at hiding commercial possibilities for vbulletin from their customers. As such they also hide the potential of their software and take away the breeding grounds for new addons. Limiting growth of new functionality and thereby limiting their own sales.

                              I believe Lionel is spot on. The company that will allow external developers, designers to advertise their products and services will win. Even if it is a new company like XenForo. But from comments on the XF forum, it seems that XenForo will sail the same route as vbulletin did some years ago.

                              It's easy to prove that what Lionel says is true. Just take a look at the features that are being requested from XenForo. Its the same over and over again: a feature set that ranges way beyond a forum, or what vbulletin has to offer. Even beyond what IPB has to offer. Market demand is where no company currently is.
                              I buy 420 forums

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                              • I hate to tell you the amount of people that come to my site and had in their mind that vB was just a forum. Sure enough, after they saw my addons, they came back to buy them, and of course had to buy vB first.

                                And the amount of customers that told me that they don't like vB because it's all the same look. When I pointed out to them some real gorgeous templates, that was enough for them to come here and grab their copy.

                                Unfortunately I am just one person.

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