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  • #16
    Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
    It is so easy to do. It's just that you are either lazy or just can't be bothered to do it.
    How old are the 400,000 pc's that you are using? Order new pc's with the latest IE browser on it. Then order in new java software.


    Let me demonstrate how it's not that easy. This is the short list
    1. Investigate Requirements
    2. Comply with Corporate Governance
    3. Ensure there's a budget to buy 400,000 computers, and 400,000 copies of new software
    4. Ensure there's a budget to have manpower to deploy new systems
    5. Getting upper management to sign off to replace computers
    6. Investigating, Mitigating, and Eliminating Incompatibility issues with Existing Information Systems
    7. Ensure computers meet new safety regulations and laws
    8. Ensure new computers meet federal, state and local privacy laws as well as any international laws (EU Laws)you may have to observe because you have a customer in a different country
    9. Physical and Logical Security Measures need to be developed, analyzed and tested
    10. Business Continuity Plans need to be updated and tested
    11. Disaster Recovery Plans need to be updated and tested
    12. Deployment and Configuration of 400,000 Computers
    13. Transferring Data from old computers to new computers so the transition is seamless
    14. What to do with old computers
    15. How to properly dispose of computers. (Immediately giving them away to charity or to a local school is out of the question as you still need to WIPE the hard drive clean completely and properly, especially if there's sensitive, if not confidential information on the hard drive)


    Each item I've listed itself is a ton of work. They branch in so many different directions you never know what you will find.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
      It is so easy to do. It's just that you are either lazy or just can't be bothered to do it.
      How old are the 400,000 pc's that you are using? Order new pc's with the latest IE browser on it. Then order in new java software.
      Why is he lazy when he possibly has no say in the matter?! I used to work for a company with employees in the 5-figure thousands. They used old equipment and software but, as I left, they were starting to comtemplate upgrading to newer OS and browsers (still not completely up to date but better). See Josh's post above this and consider the cost for doing this at my company was at least GB£3m - and that was just hardware (not just desktops), software and time costs for our desktop team. Once you start looking at developer time to upgrade essential programs...

      It's not as easy as you think and it's not all down to the laziness factor you keep harking on about - businesses priorities centre around ability to do the job, not to have the most up to date browsers for users surfing their favourite sites at lunchtime. A little more thought is required before coming out with such sweeping statements...
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      • #18
        And on the original topic, I've built my own now for 7 years as, at the time, it was cheaper to build what I wanted rather than buy at that spec. My MB blew just over 2 years ago and I almost bought a factory-built machine at that time. However, I found that some of my components were still OK so factoring that in, it was cheaper to rebuild again.

        Would I do the same again? Depends on pricing...
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Trevor Hannant View Post
          Why is he lazy when he possibly has no say in the matter?! I used to work for a company with employees in the 5-figure thousands. They used old equipment and software but, as I left, they were starting to comtemplate upgrading to newer OS and browsers (still not completely up to date but better). See Josh's post above this and consider the cost for doing this at my company was at least GB£3m - and that was just hardware (not just desktops), software and time costs for our desktop team. Once you start looking at developer time to upgrade essential programs...

          It's not as easy as you think and it's not all down to the laziness factor you keep harking on about - businesses priorities centre around ability to do the job, not to have the most up to date browsers for users surfing their favourite sites at lunchtime. A little more thought is required before coming out with such sweeping statements...
          It's actually quite stubborn of those who don't upgrade and move with the times. It's pretty sad to see so many companies say " You must use IE6 and you aren't allowed to upgrade your browser because you aren't allowed to surf the web". That doesn't make sense to me Trevor.
          The Tafe that I went to this year spent all year going around upgrading all the browsers for people to use.
          That's why I say it's easy to do. It's just that employers of those companies won't because they are scared of change.
          Kind of like vB upgrading to version 4. There are many people who won't adapt to it.
          That's why you get many companies who employ people who just go around and upgrade everything...... That's their job.
          Each company should have their own webpage up by now. There are some that won't because they prefer the snail mail method rather than instantly getting emails from people. That's what I mean by pure lazyness. They would prefer to pay all their staff much more than saving it all and adding an IT tech who can go around and fix up all the computers.
          Another thing to try is to get a list of all the pros and cons and discuss it with your boss. If the positives of upgrading a browser prove to be the winner then the boss will come around and get off his /her high horse and listen to their employees
          Last edited by carntheroos4eva; Wed 30th Dec '09, 4:48am.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
            Not trying to be rude here but why does your work insist on using old products when the latest is always the best one you can have? There are newer products on the shelves that will help you guys upgrade your java programs. As for the browser I can imagine the red x's you get all the time.
            I can live with using xp.
            It a develpoment issue.
            Carlson Corporation has a smaller sub company that created it's own software. For what every reason, they made the program Java Based with an older platform. Perhaps it just took them that long to finish the product.

            I tried using Fire fox and it wont even connect to the server.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
              It's actually quite stubborn of those who don't upgrade and move with the times. It's pretty sad to see so many companies say " You must use IE6 and you aren't allowed to upgrade your browser because you aren't allowed to surf the web". That doesn't make sense to me.
              My father works for Farmer's Insurance which is part of Zurich. One of the largest insurance and banking companies in the world. They have close to 1 million workstations across their various businesses. It is estimated that upgrading a single workstation costs $25,000 when you combine hardware purchases, software purchases, configuration and deployment costs, upgrading custom software, training, lost productivity due the change, and support. So when you get down to it, a $25 Billion investment every year is not going to sit well with the check writers or the stockholders.

              My father is a remote claims adjuster. His work laptop is 5 years old and runs Windows 2000 with IE6 as its browser. Right now if he were to upgrade his OS or browser, he couldn't do his job as none of the custom software would work. Not that they permit it anyway. He had to get special permission to install a driver to use his home printer instead of driving 100 miles (each way) into the office once a week to print his documents. The only Internet Address allowed by the computer? Connecting to the company's intranet.

              He is going to be getting a new computer next year. It will probably have Windows Vista and IE 7 on it. The company started issuing these new computers six months ago. They are issued by seniority. On the other hand, he gets a new car from the company every 60,000 miles. Which is about 2 years of driving.
              Translations provided by Google.

              Wayne Luke
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                My father works for Farmer's Insurance which is part of Zurich. One of the largest insurance and banking companies in the world. They have close to 1 million workstations across their various businesses. It is estimated that upgrading a single workstation costs $25,000 when you combine hardware purchases, software purchases, configuration and deployment costs, upgrading custom software, training, lost productivity due the change, and support. So when you get down to it, a $25 Billion investment every year is not going to sit well with the check writers or the stockholders.

                My father is a remote claims adjuster. His work laptop is 5 years old and runs Windows 2000 with IE6 as its browser. Right now if he were to upgrade his OS or browser, he couldn't do his job as none of the custom software would work. Not that they permit it anyway. He had to get special permission to install a driver to use his home printer instead of driving 100 miles (each way) into the office once a week to print his documents. The only Internet Address allowed by the computer? Connecting to the company's intranet.

                He is going to be getting a new computer next year. It will probably have Windows Vista and IE 7 on it. The company started issuing these new computers six months ago. They are issued by seniority. On the other hand, he gets a new car from the company every 60,000 miles. Which is about 2 years of driving.
                That's stubborness by the bank that he works for. The managers tend to want to pay their workers an extra million just to keep them there. When in reality they should be looking after the computer equipment and upgrade everything. Issuing cars to their employees when they have got the cash to go buy their own is purely a waste of money. I would rather upgrade the pc that I would be working on every two years rather than having a brand new car in the driveway.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ComputerVitals View Post
                  It a develpoment issue.
                  Carlson Corporation has a smaller sub company that created it's own software. For what every reason, they made the program Java Based with an older platform. Perhaps it just took them that long to finish the product.

                  I tried using Fire fox and it wont even connect to the server.
                  Even with your line of work they need to spend money on their software and get some more modern software around the place.
                  You will find that it would cost more if the older platform screws up on you if there is no support for it anymore.
                  You need to get the hint even the boss needs to get the hint that the old pcs they are working on aren't going to be around forever as with the software.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
                    Even with your line of work they need to spend money on their software and get some more modern software around the place.
                    You will find that it would cost more if the older platform screws up on you if there is no support for it anymore.
                    You need to get the hint even the boss needs to get the hint that the old pcs they are working on aren't going to be around forever as with the software.
                    It's not us as a hotel. I'm the IT guy for the hotel so I would love to do all the updates and bring it up to date. But it's corporate Carlson company that is preventing us from upgrading.

                    I work for Country Inn and Suites. Majority of these hotels use a platform called Opera xPress. It's a Java based program that communicates to a central server in Omaha. We no longer hold any customer information onsite.Tthats all centrally located. It makes it easier for upgrades. All they have to do is upgrade a few servers and send a file update..

                    Unfortunatly, Opera xPress was developed around an older form of Java and IE 6.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ComputerVitals View Post
                      It's not us as a hotel. I'm the IT guy for the hotel so I would love to do all the updates and bring it up to date. But it's corporate Carlson company that is preventing us from upgrading.

                      I work for Country Inn and Suites. Majority of these hotels use a platform called Opera xPress. It's a Java based program that communicates to a central server in Omaha. We no longer hold any customer information onsite.Tthats all centrally located. It makes it easier for upgrades. All they have to do is upgrade a few servers and send a file update..

                      Unfortunatly, Opera xPress was developed around an older form of Java and IE 6.
                      And, if someone can't read between the lines, to make any subsequent updates would disrupt operations and prevent the hotel from operating as normally. Pretty much, no money is being made. No business can be conducted.
                      ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ComputerVitals View Post
                        It's not us as a hotel. I'm the IT guy for the hotel so I would love to do all the updates and bring it up to date. But it's corporate Carlson company that is preventing us from upgrading.

                        I work for Country Inn and Suites. Majority of these hotels use a platform called Opera xPress. It's a Java based program that communicates to a central server in Omaha. We no longer hold any customer information onsite.Tthats all centrally located. It makes it easier for upgrades. All they have to do is upgrade a few servers and send a file update..

                        Unfortunatly, Opera xPress was developed around an older form of Java and IE 6.
                        Tell the company that isn't letting you do that that they are behind the times and that IE6 isn't going to be around forever and a day.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by schwab2clarkson View Post
                          Tell the company that isn't letting you do that that they are behind the times and that IE6 isn't going to be around forever and a day.
                          You really don't have a clue do you?
                          Translations provided by Google.

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