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  • #31
    Very interesting. I'm hoping to learn more about Waves and possibly use it as the comments system on my site.

    Also, if this works, we may see in the future, instead of forums you host on your server, you can just set a string of wave categories and let people create waves on your "forum". That would need moderation hierarchy, which could be created using the wave API. And from the looks of it, you wouldn't even need to host the data.

    I'm also wondering how easy it would be to spam in this system, gonna finish the video.
    Radio and TV Player for vBulletin

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    • #32
      Didn't watch the entire video. Looks okay but could be server intensive. Did they live translation so if I type in English it would show up as Norwegian on a friend's screen and so forth.? That would be the technology worth the big bucks.
      Translations provided by Google.

      Wayne Luke
      The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
      vBulletin 5 API

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
        Didn't watch the entire video. Looks okay but could be server intensive. Did they live translation so if I type in English it would show up as Norwegian on a friend's screen and so forth.? That would be the technology worth the big bucks.
        It might be server intensive but Google will definitely offer hosted solutions (at a cost). And hardware is getting faster and faster (still keeping up with Moore's law) and cost's remain the same.
        Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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        • #34
          I've been thinking about this still, I seem to have really liked it. It's a shame I'll have to wait until the end of the year, I hope they take this time to squash all the bugs that appeared in the presentation, there were a lot of them. And I hope it's easy to implement on my website as something trivial as a comments system (and maybe a chatbox, which would be one wave in descending order).

          I can see this becoming the standard for website comments, a decentralized login system as OpenID wishes to be, where people can easily come back to the comments to follow up and etc. So at the very least, if this isn't the email killer (which I don't think it is) it seems like one hell of a system to use on websites. I'm eager to try it.

          Of course I wouldn't set up my own wave server, as it would probably kill the server. I'm wondering if those are continuous http requests the thing does? Or theres a way to keep open another type of connection? Sorry if this is a dumb question...
          Last edited by Dream; Fri 5 Jun '09, 9:21pm.
          Radio and TV Player for vBulletin

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          • #35
            I believe, since this is a new protocol, it will take efficiency into account. It won't use HTTP request necessarily.
            Syrian Medical Society - mi la do - My Hacks - vCharset converter - Projects Queue

            I want to breathe the freedom, and to strew the mounts of nostalgia in your eyes.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gladius View Post
              That's great for you, you're one of the lucky ones. Over my dozen or so mail accounts that I need to check (some are business which have been in use for over 10 years and get A LOT of spam, but can't be changed due to the vast number of business contacts using them) I would estimate that over 95% of spam I get is either in Cyrillic, Arabic, Yiddish or Chinese. None of which I can read, so getting it is a complete waste of time and resources.

              Naturally spam varies from one person to another, but I know dozens of people I've worked with over the years who have the same problems with getting non-English spam constantly and no way of blocking it in Gmail. Having the option there obviously wouldn't hurt those who wouldn't want to use it, but it'd be a huge time saver for those of us who do.



              YMMV, obviously. I get over 15 spams a day just to my latest gmail account directly which I opened less than a year ago and that was never posted publicly anywhere. From my perspective, Gmail's spam blocking is crap. Saying that Gmail's spam filters are excellent just because you're not getting spam is obviously completely subjective. I've got several Gmail accounts and they all get spam, only the amount varies.
              Congratulations. You're 0.1% of Gmail users. Amazing how something is good enough to use "several" accounts on, for free, yet not quite good enough to not moan about

              I use gmail to host my personal and company email accounts (the domain mail hosting thing). I get about 10 spam messages a day in my public email address. So what? It's a damn "report spam" click away. Sure, it would be great if Google could just do everything that everyone asks, but if they did that, they'd be a helluva lot like Microsoft, eventually. They'll have bloated software that tries and does everything, but does a piss poor job of doing any of it.

              If gmail is so bad at handling your 15 spam messages (which you can see is spam right there from inbox, and quickly click on 15 checkboxes and report spam button to get rid of), why don't you try hotmail or whatever else there is out there? My bet is, you'd be back with gmail very quickly.

              I would bet that out of all the problems that Google have with gmail, this one is one that VERY few people get. I've almost never had a spam message in any other language than english. In fact, right now, I cannot remember a single one... ever. You'd find that Google is sitting with problems they need to solve that's "real" problems that 50% or 60% of people are having. These are problems worth fixing. Once you get to the size of Google, then you have to start catering for the percentages, not the ones and twos.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Milado View Post
                I believe, since this is a new protocol, it will take efficiency into account. It won't use HTTP request necessarily.
                It's the web, of course it'll use HTTP. Remember it says it uses no plugins other than Google Gears and that was to make a small feature work.
                Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dean C View Post
                  It's the web, of course it'll use HTTP. Remember it says it uses no plugins other than Google Gears and that was to make a small feature work.
                  That would mean non stop HTTP requests then wouldn't it? Just curious if I'm missing something...
                  Radio and TV Player for vBulletin

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Dream View Post
                    That would mean non stop HTTP requests then wouldn't it? Just curious if I'm missing something...
                    No you're right in your thinking. I have been pondering this too. I suspect they have some crafty server-side software (similar to Apache, but in-house of course. Remember they spoke of a "Wave Server"). I suspect this software was specifically designed to handle high concurrency over HTTP.

                    Edit: I take back what I said, I can't find anything specifically in any of the whitepapers that discusses using HTTP. Interesting...
                    Last edited by Dean C; Sat 6 Jun '09, 1:48am.
                    Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Firestar.CHKN View Post
                      Congratulations. You're 0.1% of Gmail users. Amazing how something is good enough to use "several" accounts on, for free, yet not quite good enough to not moan about
                      Sorry, I didn't realize we had Google employees with access to internal usage statistics around! Or are you just spewing unsubstantiated BS?

                      I also didn't realize constructive criticism was unwelcome for Google... new internal policy?

                      I use gmail to host my personal and company email accounts (the domain mail hosting thing). I get about 10 spam messages a day in my public email address. So what? It's a damn "report spam" click away. Sure, it would be great if Google could just do everything that everyone asks, but if they did that, they'd be a helluva lot like Microsoft, eventually. They'll have bloated software that tries and does everything, but does a piss poor job of doing any of it.
                      Last I checked, I didn't ask it do everything, only add a simple additional option to help combat spam.

                      If gmail is so bad at handling your 15 spam messages (which you can see is spam right there from inbox, and quickly click on 15 checkboxes and report spam button to get rid of), why don't you try hotmail or whatever else there is out there? My bet is, you'd be back with gmail very quickly.
                      I use Gmail because it's the best there is, but that doesn't mean that it's perfect. Also, I don't get "just" 15 spams a day; if you read what I wrote, you'll see those 15 are only from ONE, latest account. I have to sift through over 200 spams a day overall. THAT gets tedious.

                      I would bet that out of all the problems that Google have with gmail, this one is one that VERY few people get. I've almost never had a spam message in any other language than english. In fact, right now, I cannot remember a single one... ever. You'd find that Google is sitting with problems they need to solve that's "real" problems that 50% or 60% of people are having. These are problems worth fixing. Once you get to the size of Google, then you have to start catering for the percentages, not the ones and twos.
                      Pray tell which are the problems that 50-60% of people have with Gmail that aren't spam related.
                      Former endorsement revoked. You know the saying - one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Dean C View Post
                        It's the web, of course it'll use HTTP. Remember it says it uses no plugins other than Google Gears and that was to make a small feature work.
                        IIRC Google Wave is based on XMPP.

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                        • #42
                          XMPP is on the (TCPIP) application level, but encrypts data at the transport level. It is really nothing new as Google Talk has used it for years, and I believe the iPhone app Nimbuzz (VOIP) uses it as well..

                          This is something where you can tell that they have only shown you about 50% of what it can actually do, probably because a lot of those other features are not feature complete..
                          But either way, this looks amazing, and I think it was very well done..
                          MCSE, MVP, CCIE
                          Microsoft Beta Team

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                            XMPP is on the (TCPIP) application level, but encrypts data at the transport level. It is really nothing new as Google Talk has used it for years, and I believe the iPhone app Nimbuzz (VOIP) uses it as well..

                            This is something where you can tell that they have only shown you about 50% of what it can actually do, probably because a lot of those other features are not feature complete..
                            But either way, this looks amazing, and I think it was very well done..
                            But how can you make a persistent connection to an XMPP (or any TCP/IP based) server through the browser? Google explicitly stated in their talk that you would need to install google gears, but that was to provide some minor functionality unrelated to the client-server connection.
                            Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Dean C View Post
                              But how can you make a persistent connection to an XMPP (or any TCP/IP based) server through the browser?
                              I am not sure if I am missing something in your question...

                              But "XMPP" is an "Internet Messaging protocol" We have been using it for years over TCP/IP, we do now with Google Talk, and a few other applications..
                              When a XMPP server opens an XMPP Connection, that connection remains open..
                              HTTP closes the connection after content is loaded, under normal conditions, that is the huge difference here...

                              With Google Wave, it will be used to it's full extent, actually Streaming (XML)
                              MCSE, MVP, CCIE
                              Microsoft Beta Team

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                                I am not sure if I am missing something in your question...

                                But "XMPP" is an "Internet Messaging protocol" We have been using it for years over TCP/IP, we do now with Google Talk, and a few other applications..
                                When a XMPP server opens an XMPP Connection, that connection remains open..
                                HTTP closes the connection after content is loaded, under normal conditions, that is the huge difference here...

                                With Google Wave, it will be used to it's full extent, actually Streaming (XML)
                                That's what I'm trying to say. A browser uses HTTP which doesn't support persistent socket connections (natively). So how is a browser going to make a persistent connection to an XMPP server.
                                Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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