IPB 3 (are they going WC3 Strict)

[J2jcs]

I think you are forgetting vBulletin is a forum solution so therefore the focus must always be on forums because thats what most of their customers are here for. Sure branching out isn't a problem but just like Microsoft has to focus on its office and OS solutions, vB has to focus on it's forum software before branching out further.

I really don't see forum dying any time soon. Every site I visit now and run into has a forum community.

I would have to agree with that. I would say that forum software is growing if anything. I believe that forums still have a lot of scope.

On the topic of IPB 3, I look forward to seeing it. I have to say, that based on the sites that I have visited over time, I have seem more vB based communities as apposed to IPB. vB is a more practical and possibly affordable option in my eyes.

[Razasharp]

Things change. Being a forum-only platform (at least as we know them) was fine in the past, but as we've seen, that's no longer going to cut it.

Of course it's up to such companies to stay firmly logged in the past if they want to - people like me will simply move on. All we're doing here is giving them ample oppourtunity to know what may happen if they don't provide what our users want and our sites need. (And forums by themselves are not it!). This is not about what _I_ want, it is what my site needs and my users want - and that will always determine how I build sites.

[ManagerJosh]

Things change. Being a forum-only platform (at least as we know them) was fine in the past, but as we've seen, that's no longer going to cut it.

Of course it's up to such companies to stay firmly logged in the past if they want to - people like me will simply move on. All we're doing here is giving them ample oppourtunity to know what may happen if they don't provide what our users want and our sites need. (And forums by themselves are not it!). This is not about what _I_ want, it is what my site needs and my users want - and that will always determine how I build sites.

It's not about forum solutions anymore, it's about community solutions now. We're clearly seeing a move towards that trend in the market with the introductions of blogs, a need for CMSes, Converge-Based systems, galleries, etc.

To quote an old vBulletin logo. Instant Community.

[Marco]

I am sure 4.0 will be great and will be brilliantly coded for long term growth. I have massive faith in the skills of the developers here. But lets acknowledge the real problem: I am a customer assuming and guessing, leaving the entire decision making process 'to chance' with little or no ability to make an informed decision for myself.

When will it be out? Will it meet my needs? What is the complete feature list? How hard to upgrade, skin, mod?

Let's stop for a minute and think about this. Why, exactly, do you feel that we are dealing with a problem here? Do you actually need new forum software? Do you need new features? Does vBulletin 3.7 not meet your needs? If so then why are you still using it?

As for vBulletin 4.0, the developers don't know when it will be out and there probably isn't a complete feature list yet (or else it would have been posted on here I'm sure). Until such information is made public, I think vBulletin 3.7 and 3.8 (for which there is a feature list) is what we should be focusing our attention on. Not on something that is somewhere on the horizon.

Really, I don't get this "need" for new software... I mean if there were something fundamentally wrong with the current product I could understand, but clearly there isn't (or else it wouldn't be as popular as it is I'm sure).

[TECK]

It's not about forum solutions anymore, it's about community solutions now. We're clearly seeing a move towards that trend in the market with the introductions of blogs, a need for CMSes, Converge-Based systems, galleries, etc.

To quote an old vBulletin logo. Instant Community.

Josh, you can do everything you are currently listing above, with current vB software. All it takes is a little work, or hiring a developer. Many sites who are very popular have their own proprietary platform, anyways. They do not use stock software available for a modic price to everyone.

That's why those sites have success, because they created something unique. Copying something that already exists will not make your site popular, in fact people will hate you for replicating something already existent... "Look at that wannabe clone site." Having vBulletin offering you that type of platform will actually remove all the unique look and feel those sites have. Imagine if all vBulletin customers will have a Facebook on their sites. I guarantee you that the "cool" sites will soon be deprecated, if you can see the same thing everywhere...

Let's stop for a minute and think about this. Why, exactly, do you feel that we are dealing with a problem here? Do you actually need new forum software? Do you need new features? Does vBulletin 3.7 not meet your needs? If so then why are you still using it?

Marco, I think Geek speaks more from the eyes of a developer, code wise. I know I will welcome a new vBulletin platform who will allow me to develop easier...

[Lizard King]

Josh, you can do everything you are currently listing above, with current vB software. All it takes is a little work, or hiring a developer. Many sites who are very popular have their own proprietary platform, anyways. They do not use stock software available for a modic price to everyone.

That's why those sites have success, because they created something unique. Copying something that already exists will not make your site popular, in fact people will hate you for replicating something already existent... "Look at that wannabe clone site." Having vBulletin offering you that type of platform will actually remove all the unique look and feel those sites have. Imagine if all vBulletin customers will have a Facebook on their sites. I guarantee you that the "cool" sites will soon be deprecated, if you can see the same thing everywhere...


Marco, I think Geek speaks more from the eyes of a developer, code wise. I know I will welcome a new vBulletin platform who will allow me to develop easier...

vBulleins biggest advantage is as Floren mentioned it is pretty easy to customize. If you have time , money or knowledge you can create sites that noone can realize it is vBulletin at all.

I also personally want to see more information from vBulletin regarding what will happen in future. I can imagine features as we all have an idea what can be in 4.0. My main concern is vBulletin's slow development speed. Imagine we are still using a 5 year old core engine. While we were all expecting 4.0 last year 3.7 was shipping into the market and now while we were expecting 4.0 again 3.8 was delivered even Kier mentioned 3.7 would be the latest 3.x series branch. I am a very old vBulletin user also. vBulletin has a slow development speed and if i had a chance to put money i would bet on mid 2010 for vB 4.0 to be delivered. This is my main concern as IPB is moving way faster than Jelsoft. With IPB 3.0 they will probably lead the market with the most advanced code structure a low price range forum solution can give. And while we will wait 4.0 they may release IPB 3.5 and i can bet on this too. I still donot want to move out of vBulletin as i know every part of it and it is really easy to customize but if Jelsoft will keep the slow development speed i also may have to consider checking IPB 3 and maybe purchase a license when it is ready. Thats why i am currently an unhappy customer who wonders for a version more 2 year. What Jelsoft can do is at least give information regarding 4.0 development plan. At least we , customers , will know that and plan our sites future.

There is another point that bugs me. I think with vB 4.0 we will see a major price increase and license system update ( this is just a guess )

[the geek]

If you do not think that evolving software is an important aspect to a software development company, then I suppose there is no problem here (maybe you're typing this from IE4 and Windows 95).

I'm happy with 3.7. I'm sure Ill be happy with 4.0. My point was that since information is sparse and ethereal, it leaves no basis to make long term decisions on. Investing in technology to power your site into the future requires some foresight. Thinking "No worries, in 5 years my community will still be fine with 3.7" is shortsighted to say the least. Instead, we need to be thinking of how things will evolve for next year. With IPB, you can get a 'feel'. At vB, you get a void. For hardcore users like me, that may be OK. For new customers it won't be good enough. New customer fuel growth and therefore are essential to Jelsofts business.

Like I said, I'm a pretty hardcore vB guy. I know the system fairly well and can't wait for what the team rolls out. However vB as software is secondary to my needs as a forum administrator of a pretty busy site. I need to ensure that vB is going to meet our requirements in the future as those requirements grow and keep me and my customers happy.

See, I don't need new forum software right this second, but I need additional functionality that is not currently present in vB. Many of the things that I have to 'hack' into vB is starting to become available as standard options elsewhere. I love vB, but to say that customers should be happy having little to no information to make an informed decision on is a poor business model that not carry a leadership position in the market long term.

If there isn't a roadmap for 4.0 and a time line, then Jelsoft is in deep doodoo. The marketplace is getting too competitive to maintain a leadership position flying by the seat of your pants.

Hope that helps to clarify what I meant

[TECK]

I'm not convinced that the most brilliant coders work for IPB.
I don't think IPB 3.0 will be a WOW software... but that is just me. Time will prove me wrong. There is no perfect software on this planet, it is always room for improvement.

In very rare occasions, I had a chance to speak with vBulletin developers. Their goal is to make customers happy with a good piece of code, while they sleep 3-5hours a day on busy periods (we all do that). Did you know that many of them assist to conferences and brush every day tons of new material to stay up to date with latest technology? It is a developer job to stay updated.

The issue is: Technology changes are to overwhelming to stay on top of everything. Whatever you write now as top code, ss deprecated by a better method in 3 months. You cannot afford to change everything every year, not even Microsoft with their resources cannot do that.

[Dream]

many of them assist to conferences

sorry to nitpick, but there's 5? many are 3?

[MRGTB]

Even though IPB have had all the better offical add-ons, vBulletin have been able to keep pace with IPB in the past because their forum software itself has had the edge over IPB's.

The problem now is that's most likely going to change with IPB3. And not only will they have the more advanced forum software now, but also the better offical add-on's to go with it. That's why as Geek said, they need to look at their PR stategy.

Having a closed door attitude about vB4 from now until IPB3 is released is going to lose them customers. I'm reading posts here from "seasoned" vBulletin users talking about switching over to IPB (not a bunch of newbies). That should be making vBulletin sit-up and realise they need to start to think more carefully about what there doing.

And you know, I can't help but keep wondering if the previous owner of vBulletin, choose now to sell vB to IB. Because he saw the writing was on the wall, and knew vB was losing the war with IPB.

[Floris]

sorry to nitpick, but there's 5? many are 3?

What do you mean?

[AH Modding]

I'm not convinced that the most brilliant coders work for IPB.

Have you actually read about the framework IPS are using, its one of the best types of frameworks available, not trying to sound big headed, I know what I am talking about.

vBulletin will have to produce a very good framework for me to be impressed comparing to IP.Board3 one.

--MAD--, just about your comment earlier, true that all the developers are working on IP.Board3, but a lot of people forget IP.Tracker and IP.Shoutbox are written by the community, so I am guessing with the launch of IP.Board3, it will be like this

IP.Board 3 with Blog Downloads and Gallery respective releases.

Then a few weeks later Tracker and Shoutbox will probably be out. So IPS do have 'more things to play around with'

[David Grove]

Have you actually read about the framework IPS are using, its one of the best types of frameworks available, not trying to sound big headed, I know what I am talking about.

vBulletin will have to produce a very good framework for me to be impressed comparing to IP.Board3 one.

--MAD--, just about your comment earlier, true that all the developers are working on IP.Board3, but a lot of people forget IP.Tracker and IP.Shoutbox are written by the community, so I am guessing with the launch of IP.Board3, it will be like this

IP.Board 3 with Blog Downloads and Gallery respective releases.

Then a few weeks later Tracker and Shoutbox will probably be out. So IPS do have 'more things to play around with'

Where can I read about IPB's 3.x framework?

[AH Modding]

http://forums.invisionpower.com/inde...showentry=2603 (latest entry posted a few moments ago)
http://forums.invisionpower.com/blog...showentry=2536

Those are the two main ones, but bits of code are posted in all the other entries

[cheat-master30]

Have you actually read about the framework IPS are using, its one of the best types of frameworks available, not trying to sound big headed, I know what I am talking about.

And no offence, but how many people who aren't knowlegeable in programming or what not actually know, or even care what a framework is, let alone what one a piece of software uses? They only notice how the forum actually works and the front end features...

--MAD--, just about your comment earlier, true that all the developers are working on IP.Board3, but a lot of people forget IP.Tracker and IP.Shoutbox are written by the community, so I am guessing with the launch of IP.Board3, it will be like this

IP.Board 3 with Blog Downloads and Gallery respective releases.

Then a few weeks later Tracker and Shoutbox will probably be out. So IPS do have 'more things to play around with'

If they're unofficial, that's no different to the best vBulletin exclusive modifications, of which are likely equal or better quality. The best coders aren't exclusively working on modifying vBulletin you know.

If you do not think that evolving software is an important aspect to a software development company, then I suppose there is no problem here (maybe you're typing this from IE4 and Windows 95).

I'm happy with 3.7. I'm sure Ill be happy with 4.0. My point was that since information is sparse and ethereal, it leaves no basis to make long term decisions on. Investing in technology to power your site into the future requires some foresight. Thinking "No worries, in 5 years my community will still be fine with 3.7" is shortsighted to say the least. Instead, we need to be thinking of how things will evolve for next year. With IPB, you can get a 'feel'. At vB, you get a void. For hardcore users like me, that may be OK. For new customers it won't be good enough. New customer fuel growth and therefore are essential to Jelsofts business.

Investing? Paying $160 counts as a big investment? That's the kind of wording similar to 'clients', when a quick dictionary definition reveals there's no real difference from customer other than wording.

Like I said, I'm a pretty hardcore vB guy. I know the system fairly well and can't wait for what the team rolls out. However vB as software is secondary to my needs as a forum administrator of a pretty busy site. I need to ensure that vB is going to meet our requirements in the future as those requirements grow and keep me and my customers happy.

See, I don't need new forum software right this second, but I need additional functionality that is not currently present in vB. Many of the things that I have to 'hack' into vB is starting to become available as standard options elsewhere. I love vB, but to say that customers should be happy having little to no information to make an informed decision on is a poor business model that not carry a leadership position in the market long term.

If there isn't a roadmap for 4.0 and a time line, then Jelsoft is in deep doodoo. The marketplace is getting too competitive to maintain a leadership position flying by the seat of your pants.

Hope that helps to clarify what I meant

What you mean is well meaning, although I've personally seen quite a few successful companies who obviously don't give out very much information about their plans. But hey, I agree, some more information from Jelsoft would be nice.

It's not about forum solutions anymore, it's about community solutions now. We're clearly seeing a move towards that trend in the market with the introductions of blogs, a need for CMSes, Converge-Based systems, galleries, etc.

To quote an old vBulletin logo. Instant Community.

And all that has to be from company? What's with all the 'all in one' things people seem to want? And again, you're making it seem like every site needs the same things, when a good portion of them (note not using the word most) obviously don't. A site based on information, or a site strictly about business might not need most of those things while a community focused site might need them.