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  • #31
    Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
    Not to sound rude or anything.
    But am i the only person in this thread that eats Steak??
    Hell no! I have it at least once a week mmhmm Well-done please
    Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
      My family eats meat two or three nights a week.
      This is strange. Animal rights advocating, but refraining from eating meat, and only if it's "organic"? There's no such thing, as the law requires antibotics to keep the animals healthy, otherwise they can spread Foot and Mouth disease and other nasties. Organic meat only means the animal eats a more wholesome diet; sometimes living on the land (to eat grass); and that steroids aren't used to fatten them up. They're still full of antibotics; still will eat things worse than processed feed -- like snacking on weeds in the fields that will cause sickness in both the animal and humans (and guess how they rid the fields of those weeds??).

      Mom grows vegies in her garden as organically as possible, but it's anything but as nature intended (seeds are rarely natural, many are genetically modified; fertilizers rarely natural [they're all processed]; soil can be contaminated; bugs have to be controlled, and natural bug killers like Neem oil has warnings as bad as artificial pesticides).

      The bad thing about any of the "Nature First" movements is they take extreme positions. They proclaim XYZ is better for you because it's "natural", when if it was "natural" we'll be returning to the dark days before public health was legislated (and starve, since 1/3 of the fields will goto waste on pest infestations and lack of fertilizers). We can't go back in time, we can only hope that what we raise and what we eat is "healthy", not make claims that food products are as Nature intended, and labeling them "organic".

      Want real "organic" meat? Goto Alaska and hunt wild Moose or Caribou and eat that, because that's as natural as it can be now (I wouldn't claim venison natural anymore, because of conservation measures to ensure bucks and does are feed with corn and feed).

      Just can't wait until meat is made in the lab. Soft; nutritious; no fat; no cholesterol; no worms; no antibotics; no vaccines; no waiting 2+ years for an animal to "fatten up"; contamination from microbes are more carefully controlled.

      And that won't be "natural" or "organic" but it'll be better for you!.
      "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to Authority
      is not using his intelligence, he is just using his memory."
      ~~~
      Leonardo da Vinci

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ChrisLM2001 View Post
        If you've seen the terror acts PETA has done, you would claim their terrorists by that definition, too.

        I use the term "terrorist" very sparingly. It's probably because of my background in psychology and in law. Still, I will not dispute how you view PETA based on your experiences with them. You have your reasons for labeling PETA as a terrorist group and I'm not here to convince you to think otherwise.

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        • #34
          There was a story in the UK a few years back about some animal rights activists releasing some Ferrets from a fur farm into the wild.

          Those Ferrets went and total decimated the local ecosystem doing more harm than good and killing far more animals than would have died if they had just been used for fur.

          It just goes to show that animal rights activists really do not always know what they are talking about.

          The only animal group I'm willing to support is the RSPCA.

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          • #35
            There's a big difference between animals being killed by other animals in the wild (which is just nature taking its course), and animals being cruelly slaughtered for fur, Cromulent.

            I say good on the activists for releasing the ferrets.
            "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Creepshow View Post
              There's a big difference between animals being killed by other animals in the wild (which is just nature taking its course), and animals being cruelly slaughtered for fur, Cromulent.
              Not when it destroys the ecosystem.

              Release too many predators in a small area too fast, and they'll eat everything, with dismal results for all animals -- and even plants -- in the area. It can cause extinction.

              Why when they released the wolves in the national parks, they're closely monitoring them and the ecosystem, so the wolves don't upset the balance by eating too much prey.

              Yin and Yang.
              "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to Authority
              is not using his intelligence, he is just using his memory."
              ~~~
              Leonardo da Vinci

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Creepshow View Post
                There's a big difference between animals being killed by other animals in the wild (which is just nature taking its course), and animals being cruelly slaughtered for fur, Cromulent.

                I say good on the activists for releasing the ferrets.
                Your joking right? These animals destroyed the local ecosystem. They caused irreparable harm and killed off a significant portion of the local otters. Those ferrets had no natural right to be in that ecosystem and the ignorance of the animal rights activists caused more damage to the environment and more harm to animals in general than if they had just let them be slaughtered for fur.

                This is what annoys me. The complete ignorance of animal rights activists and the people who say "good for them" without knowing anything about what they are talking about.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cromulent View Post
                  Your joking right? These animals destroyed the local ecosystem. They caused irreparable harm and killed off a significant portion of the local otters. Those ferrets had no natural right to be in that ecosystem and the ignorance of the animal rights activists caused more damage to the environment and more harm to animals in general than if they had just let them be slaughtered for fur.

                  This is what annoys me. The complete ignorance of animal rights activists and the people who say "good for them" without knowing anything about what they are talking about.
                  No, I'm most definitely not joking.

                  Animal cruelty is NEVER acceptable, no matter what the circumstances.

                  Anyone who believes animal cruelty must be stopped DOES know what they're talking about. It's the careless idiots with no regard for animal welfare who need re-educating.

                  But you're entitled to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine.
                  "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ChrisLM2001 View Post
                    they're closely monitoring them and the ecosystem, so the wolves don't upset the balance by eating too much prey.
                    Yep, people interferring with nature as per usual.

                    That's part of the problem. Leave nature and animals be.
                    "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Creepshow View Post
                      No, I'm most definitely not joking.

                      Animal cruelty is NEVER acceptable, no matter what the circumstances.

                      Anyone who believes animal cruelty must be stopped DOES know what they're talking about. It's the careless idiots with no regard for animal welfare who need re-educating.

                      But you're entitled to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine.

                      There are better options available to alleviate animal cruelty than to introduce population imbalances that upset ecosystems. Introducing animals into an ecosystem brings a lot more than destruction than killing off other animals. It can cause crop devastation, water pollution, and disease to spread while wiping out indigenous species and possibly causing extinction. For humans it can exacerbate poverty and hunger by causing higher prices for goods and services.

                      Releasing animals out into the wild that have never been in the wild is cruelty and shows a total disregard for animal welfare and for the ecosystems that provide life on this planet.
                      Translations provided by Google.

                      Wayne Luke
                      The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                      vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                      Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                      • #41
                        I agree that animals that are DOMESTICATED should not be put out into the wild. Because yes, that would be extremely cruel.

                        BUT, if people weren't cruel to animals in the first place, all of us wouldn't even be having this conversation and there wouldn't be a problem.

                        I hate it when people try and make out it's animal rights activists who are to blame! Anyone who has animal rights high on their agenda is a good person in my book.

                        It's the people who stand idly by and don't do anything to help (or those sickos who wear fur or hunt for "fun") who are at fault.
                        "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Creepshow View Post
                          I hate it when people try and make out it's animal rights activists who are to blame! Anyone who has animal rights high on their agenda is a good person in my book.
                          PETA is not an animal rights group though. It was started after the founder was bit by a dog. Their primary goal under all the gloss and campaigns is to get animal ownership banned and all current pets put to death. People who actually work for animal rights are doing so to prevent harm to the animals and provide safe shelter to them. Domesticated animals do not belong in the wild. They do not have the skills to survive and there are no predators left to keep them in control. Dogs and Cats have been bred to rely on humans as much as we rely on them for day to day life (some more than others). In the end, they will be hunted and killed by people. Look at the controls to keep non-native species in check like wild pigs in North and South America or the pacific islands and rabbits in Australia.
                          Translations provided by Google.

                          Wayne Luke
                          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                          vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                          Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                            PETA is not an animal rights group though. It was started after the founder was bit by a dog. Their primary goal under all the gloss and campaigns is to get animal ownership banned and all current pets put to death. People who actually work for animal rights are doing so to prevent harm to the animals and provide safe shelter to them. Domesticated animals do not belong in the wild. They do not have the skills to survive and there are no predators left to keep them in control. Dogs and Cats have been bred to rely on humans as much as we rely on them for day to day life (some more than others). In the end, they will be hunted and killed by people. Look at the controls to keep non-native species in check like wild pigs in North and South America or the pacific islands and rabbits in Australia.
                            Um, I don't support PETA. AT ALL. Let me make that very clear right here and now.

                            I support the RSPCA and HSUS.
                            "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Wayne Luke View Post
                              PETA is not an animal rights group though. It was started after the founder was bit by a dog. Their primary goal under all the gloss and campaigns is to get animal ownership banned and all current pets put to death. People who actually work for animal rights are doing so to prevent harm to the animals and provide safe shelter to them. Domesticated animals do not belong in the wild. They do not have the skills to survive and there are no predators left to keep them in control. Dogs and Cats have been bred to rely on humans as much as we rely on them for day to day life (some more than others). In the end, they will be hunted and killed by people. Look at the controls to keep non-native species in check like wild pigs in North and South America or the pacific islands and rabbits in Australia.
                              I agree with basically everything you have just said! I just said myself that domesticated animals SHOULD NOT be released into the wild.

                              I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here with regards to what I am trying to say.
                              "CREEPSHOW CREEPS ONLINE" - The first & best online resource dead-icated to Stephen King & George A. Romero's 1982 horror anthology classic!!!!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Creepshow View Post
                                Animal cruelty is NEVER acceptable, no matter what the circumstances.

                                Anyone who believes animal cruelty must be stopped DOES know what they're talking about. It's the careless idiots with no regard for animal welfare who need re-educating.
                                Animal cruelty will exist long after humans are extinct. Because that IS nature.

                                Mankind is the one with supposely "compassion", which defies nature. In the end, his "compassion" may even cause his own extinction, for the same reason of releasing a non-local predator into the wild to eat the native wildlife, because he felt "sorry" for it.

                                Do you know what Kudzu is, Creepshow? It was imported as an ornamental plant. It got released into the wild, and the result it's strangling whole forests with it's vines that grows inches a day.

                                That's what non-native plants and animals do. Without natural enemies it will overtake the region and kill off the entire ecosystem.

                                That's not "compassion", that's species killing by stupidity.
                                "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to Authority
                                is not using his intelligence, he is just using his memory."
                                ~~~
                                Leonardo da Vinci

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