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  • Nusphere.com vs MySQL.com?

    First i heard of this check it out

    http://www.mysql.com/news/article-75.html



    i thought they were getting along nicely until this
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  • #2
    I wonder if this has anything to do with RedHat choosing PostGRES for their DB?
    Matt
    Sybase DBA / PHP fanatic
    Sybase v. MySQL v. Oracle | Why I don't like MySQL | Download Sybase TODAY! | Visit DBForums.com!

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes I thought they were getting along just fine as well... but it looks like the relationship has been on the rocks for a little while now, and both companies are suing each other.

      On Thursday, Britt Johnston, CTO of NuSphere, annouced they are about to launch a new MySQL site for downloads and support ( www.mysql.org ) on the MySQL mailing lists. Almost immediately after that, Monty from MySQL AB sent a firmly worded responsed that he was very upset they are using the "mysql" without permission and other things. They also sent out a press release about the whole thing: http://www.mysql.com/news/article-74.html and modified the old press release about the partnership: http://www.mysql.com/news/article-23.html and modified their comments about the NuSphere MySQL: http://www.mysql.com/portal/distribu...omments-1.html along with removing all traces of "Gemini" from their web site documentation.

      Personally, I think NuSphere has every right to use the "MySQL" name, they have an agreement with MySQL AB to use it (which MySQL AB says it terminated) and have paid for the rights to use the name. I also think that the Gemini table type (which should be release as GPL next week on the new mysql.org site) is one of the best things for MySQL, dramatically enhancing it's scalability with row-locking and adding some long awaited features.

      I found a very good news article about the developments here: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?...37&mode=thread

      There is also a discussion going on at Slashdot as well, although it is heated and not very factual.

      You can see all the messages posted about this issue on the MySQL at the archives here: http://lists.mysql.com/cgi-ez/ezmlm-cgi/1#b
      Last edited by Chris Schreiber; Sat 14 Jul '01, 10:09am.

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's Britt's first emails with Monty's response on it:
        >Enhanced MySQL(tm) is as the words say a value-added version of MySQL available from NuSphere and is available as part of two products that
        >contain NuSphere MySQL: NuSphere MySQL Advantage and NuSphere Pro Advantage (which also includes a really nice PHP IDE if you haven't
        >seen it). Take a look at http://nusphere.com for more.
        >
        >As we have publically stated, we expect to release the source code for Gemini as part of MySQL V4, given the delay in releasing V4 we have
        >decided to release gemini source via mysql.org as a way to kick off this new non-commercial community site formed for support of mysql.
        >Take a look at http://mysql.org for more.
        >
        >Britt...

        Those that have been on this email list a long time should know that I seldom lose my temper. The above email however went far beyond the limit I can stand.

        By acquiring, without our knowledge or approval, mysql.org and putting what they call a 'community' website on it, NuSphere has violated both the MySQL(tm) trademark and the copyright of MySQL AB. If we aren't hard on them, MySQL AB could lose a major part of our income, which we put into developing the MySQL(tm) server.

        I want to stress that to date, NuSphere has contributed nothing, no money or source, to the development of the MySQL(tm) server. What they have done instead is doing a fork of the MySQL distribution and making a non-open source distribution that clearly violates the GPL license.

        What NuSphere seems to be trying to do is to get people to approve of their fork, get more people to work on it, and cause confusion among MySQL users as to where the origin of the MySQL(tm) source and documentation is. What NuSphere has done indicates that they want to be regarded as being in the center of MySQL(tm) server development and use this as a leverage to push their commercial products that are not open source. The truth is that NuSphere has nothing to do with the development of the MySQL(tm) server.

        mysql.org doesn't provide anything significant that http://www.mysql.com wouldn't provide. Instead they are forcing people to register to be able to download anything. They are gathering names for reasons we can only guess.

        I have spent the last 6 years working on the MySQL(tm) server on average 10 hours per day, seven days a week. The other MySQL developers and I have personally helped tens of thousands of MySQL users with their problems and now NuSphere is trying to take that away from us. All the code in the MySQL(tm) server is either written by developers employed by MySQL AB (that's including me) or has been signed over to us by MySQL users as a thanks for what we have provided to them.

        If anyone has any comments about how we at MySQL AB work as an open source company, please write to our CEO Marten Mickos via [email protected] and we will welcome your suggestions. We are totally dependent on the trust of our users, as everything we do are open source, and we are trying hard to do everything in our power to make life easier for our users.

        We at MySQL AB have already taken the necessary legal steps to defend our rights. We would however need help from all MySQL users to properly defend ourselves.

        If you want to help us, please help us with the following:

        - If you now have a link in your website or browser to mysql.org because you think it is the authorized MySQL AB site, please consider pointing that link to www.mysql.com

        - Inform everyone you know about the true nature of mysql.org,

        - Send your honest comments about this unfortunate situation, and report all instances of confusion concerning mysql.org to us at [email protected]

        If you don't have time to fight for us, you can support us in this fight by purchasing a MySQL(tm) server license at https://order.mysql.com/

        Please spread the word and thanks for the support!

        Monty
        CTO of MySQL AB
        Creator and Design Architect of the MySQL(tm) server code

        David Axmark
        MySQL AB, Co Founder and community building
        Last edited by Chris Schreiber; Sat 14 Jul '01, 12:54pm.

        Comment


        • #5
          Britt's response on the mailing list:
          Well, what a mess. It is regretable that this legal issue needs to be aired so publically that was certainly not my preference. I also will not get into a flame war, it is not in the best interest of mysql. I appreciate all the email I've received with advice and/or support - thanks.

          It is important that everyone realize that there is a legal agreement that both Monty and David personally signed that provides NuSphere broad rights around the use of the MySQL name. That agreement also allows NuSphere to release MySQL under the GPL license forever and print and distribute the manual. We paid significant money to Monty and David in exchange for that agreement which was central to forming NuSphere. This is public record.

          Please consider these facts when you try to understand NuSphere's rights and motivations - we actually worked hard to get the details in writing before we even started the company and we paid real money. It is under this agreement that we believe we have a clear right to use mysql.org.

          Now it appears there is a need by MySQL AB to characterize that agreement as no longer in effect - I hope you can respect the fact that NuSphere believes it is fully in effect and we wish to continue to abide by it. This is the central issue and public debate will not resolve it.

          As far as mysql.org goes, what NuSphere would like to see is a non-profit organization running that site - we have been consistent in this desire for over a year, but it has been opposed by Monty and David. I discussed this with Monty as recently as a few weeks ago in June and July and as always he was not interested - I appreciate he is entitled to that opinion as I am entitled to believe that it is time to take this step in the MySQL community. I invite all those who are skeptical to join mysql.org and be part of its formation.

          [BTW, the first community action was to get rid of the registration requirement at the site - it is no longer required for downloading files rather it is a membership registration only now.]

          As far as NuSphere's contribution to MySQL, it is disappointing to see our efforts discounted so quickly. At a minimum there are specific bug fixes, features, and language statements focused around transaction support in the server that are in MySQL due to NuSphere's efforts in cooperation with Monty. The Gemini table handler itself is already part of MySQL and is licensed under the GPL - go find ha_gemini.cc and you will see it we checked it in long ago in V4 and again in 3.23 when V4 was late. The Gemini component itself will be released via mysql.org as GPL as previously announced - note that Gemini itself is not a derivative of MySQL in any way - it's roots date back to long before MySQL existed.

          Finally independent of the rest of this. I have the highest respect for Monty and what he has done creating MySQL. I'm certain we can move beyond this and make MySQL an even stronger open source project and I encourage everyone move to a constructive dialog.

          Britt
          Last edited by Chris Schreiber; Sat 14 Jul '01, 12:56pm.

          Comment


          • #6
            Some more comments from Britt:

            mysql.org has not been publically announced and it will take some time for it to become the thriving community it is destined to be. My hope is that rather than fighting it, you can join it and be part of an even more vibrant mysql community.

            It is disappointing that our friends from MySQL AB seem threatened by the creation of noncommercial site to promote mysql that they jump in and announce it themselves to the world and claim they were not informed. The facts are they were informed and invited to participate, their response is what you have read.

            You mention specifically that you believe we have no right to the domain name. The facts are that we believe we have a right under an agreement that was signed by both Monty and David that provided us with broad rights to mysql related names. In fact we paid a significant sum of money for the ability to use those names and other items and that same agreement in fact required MySQL to be released under the GPL. Now that MySQL AB has taken on venture capital funding and hired new management, they want to ignore those agreements.

            Your comments about us not participating in any meaninful fashion in the open source community are disappointing because it means NuSphere has not done a good job communicating its work, I believe we provide a significant service and have allowed many people who otherwise could not use open source software to use it because of our work on improving windows ports, integration of components, and major features. We contribute back fixes and improvements to many open source communities including apache, perl, php and mysql. Much of that work is available at no cost through downloads at our website. I'd invite you to download and try NuSphere MySQL and see an example of what we have done.

            The importance of our investment is reflected in Monty's own words: "NuSphere has identified a very important technical enhancement needed to transform MySQL into an enterprise-enabled database capable of competing with commercial heavyweights," said Michael "Monty" Widenius, chief technology officer of MySQL AB. "In MySQL's five-year history, this is the most significant contribution from a source outside MySQL AB that has ever occurred."

            We also support the community by sponsoring and helping organize events such as the OSCON 2001 with O'Reilly, Open Source Database Summit with OSDN, and the Linux Legacy through Geek Cruises to name a few. We are proud of the significant investment we make in these areas so that the open source community can meet and learn from each other face to face.

            As we said last January, we planned on Gemini being released under an open source license as part of the launch of MySQL 4.0, but that release has not shipped so we have decided to release the source through mysql.org instead soon after its launch (the community needs to setup CVS to support that effort). Note that Gemini has both commercial and open source licenses just like MySQL itself and the products we are currently shipping are provided with a commercial license of Gemini. We absolutely believe we have the right to do this.

            In closing, I hope you will take a moment to see things from our perspective and understand that we want a strong mysql community as strong as apache or php and one that is not controlled by a single commercial company.

            Thanks for your time,

            Britt...
            Last edited by Chris Schreiber; Sat 14 Jul '01, 12:59pm.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey Chris, are you in any way involved with the NuSphere community?
              Matt
              Sybase DBA / PHP fanatic
              Sybase v. MySQL v. Oracle | Why I don't like MySQL | Download Sybase TODAY! | Visit DBForums.com!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MattR
                Hey Chris, are you in any way involved with the NuSphere community?
                Well, I've been a customer of Progress Software (the company that owns NuSphere), and a consultant for their database products for 10 years now. I also know many of the people working for NuSphere (Britt, Patrick) that have worked for Progress for some time. And yes I am planning on being a part of their new community when it gets underway... I really think their enhancements to MySQL are going to give it a big edge, especially for larger sites that have in the past had problems running MySQL.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chris Schreiber
                  Well, I've been a customer of Progress Software (the company that owns NuSphere), and a consultant for their database products for 10 years now. I also know many of the people working for NuSphere (Britt, Patrick) that have worked for Progress for some time. And yes I am planning on being a part of their new community when it gets underway... I really think their enhancements to MySQL are going to give it a big edge, especially for larger sites that have in the past had problems running MySQL.
                  Cool; I figured you were (no links to mysql.com in your sig ).

                  I know you're fair but the comments posted so far seem very pro-NuSphere and I think people should take those with a grain of salt. Personally I think NuSphere is making great strides forward but there are still compelling reasons why I don't like MySQL.
                  Matt
                  Sybase DBA / PHP fanatic
                  Sybase v. MySQL v. Oracle | Why I don't like MySQL | Download Sybase TODAY! | Visit DBForums.com!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MattR
                    I know you're fair but the comments posted so far seem very pro-NuSphere and I think people should take those with a grain of salt.
                    Oh I agree.... there are many more people on MySQL AB's side now then on NuSphere's.... I know I am very biased in my thoughts on this matter, but I am just basing them on my experiences with Progress Software and the people that work there.

                    Of course there are several lawsuits going on about this issue, and I will respect the outcome of those, whatever they may be. I also would *love* to see NuSphere and MySQL AB work out these differences, because I would hate to see the community split by this, or development efforts duplicated across a forked version of MySQL.

                    Personally I think NuSphere is making great strides forward but there are still compelling reasons why I don't like MySQL.
                    LOL Well I'm sure we'll convert you one day! hahaha

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe someone will fork MYsql and turn it into a real RDBMS

                      Meanwhile head over to www.postgresql.org where you have Postgresql.inc, Greatbridge and now Red Hat all working on Postgresql without fighting like cats.

                      IMHO this was bound to happen sometime, MYsql development is controlled by MYsql AB, someone was bound to get upset at the way and speed development goes.
                      Postgresql is developing much faster than MYsql prcisely because it isn't developed as a dictatorship.
                      While MYsql is "open source" it's development (and community) isn't anywhere near as open or friendly as Postgresql.

                      It seems to me Nusphere wanted to move MYsql more "open source" and MYsql doesn't like this.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 4php
                        It seems to me Nusphere wanted to move MYsql more "open source" and MYsql doesn't like this.
                        Yes I would agree with this, it seems the MySQL AB wants to maintain tight control over the source code and not accept code submissions from everyone, while NuSphere is setting up a site with CVS so people can do just this. Actually Progress recently opened up it's proprietary source code for it's development tools in an open source model, which has been pretty sucessful ( http://www.possenet.org/ ), so I know they are committed to this business model.
                        Last edited by Chris Schreiber; Sat 14 Jul '01, 11:37pm.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What does this mean for us? What version of mysql are most people running? Nuspphere or mysql.com?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dwh
                            What does this mean for us? What version of mysql are most people running? Nuspphere or mysql.com?
                            I've just installed and enabled the Gemini table types from Nusphere on my sites. It went smoothly and everything's working fine. One immediate performance increase I saw was when deleting threads, it now happens immediately instead of taking 5-15 seconds.

                            The documentations a bit light and I'm still confused as to whether the -O gemini_buffer_cache=<size> replaces anything in the my.cnf or is it in addition. Chris... can you answer this one?
                            http://britishexpats.com/ - British expatriate community

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fastforward
                              I've just installed and enabled the Gemini table types from Nusphere on my sites. It went smoothly and everything's working fine. One immediate performance increase I saw was when deleting threads, it now happens immediately instead of taking 5-15 seconds.
                              Yes I have converted all my databases over to Gemini as well... and there are some nice performance enhancements. I am thinking of converting some very large sites (which have locking problems) over this weekend.

                              The documentations a bit light and I'm still confused as to whether the -O gemini_buffer_cache=<size> replaces anything in the my.cnf or is it in addition. Chris... can you answer this one?
                              The gemini_buffer_cache is a seperate memory area for the Gemini engine.... if you converted from MyISAM, then you can decrease the key_buffer value and increase the gemini_buffer_cache values by the same amount.

                              Here's what I am using for my my.cnf for Gemini:
                              Code:
                              default-table-type=gemini
                              gemini-recovery=FULL
                              gemini-unbuffered-io
                              
                              set-variable    = gemini_buffer_cache=33554432
                              set-variable    = gemini_connection_limit=200
                              set-variable    = gemini_io_threads=2
                              set-variable    = gemini_lock_table_size=4096
                              set-variable    = gemini_lock_wait_timeout=10
                              set-variable    = gemini_spin_retries=2000

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