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phpBB goes all CSS / tablefree

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Zachery View Post
    Theres no reason to not to use tables when they are called for. Tables != evil.
    Zachery, that's a rather blatant statement. Nobody is saying that tables are evil nor that they should not be used when called for. Use tables if you want to display table content, such as a spreadsheets. But use CSS if you want to define a layout for which, everyone agrees nowadays, tables are not the best tools.

    There are so many reasons to switch to CSS and leave oh-so-yesterday table layouts behind, some of them are:
    • faster rendering
    • reduced code size (compare the source code of the new phpbb design to the vb design) leading to reduced bandwidth consumption and faster page loads
    • better support for non-standard displays, such as mobile devices
    • easier to design new layouts

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    • #32
      Alex, Zachery's point was exactly what you just argued...
      Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Dean C View Post
        Alex, Zachery's point was exactly what you just argued...
        I didn't argue the point with him, I agreed.

        Edit: Oh whoops, just noticed that you were talking to AlexanderT. So many people named Alex...
        Last edited by DirectPixel; Tue 20th Mar '07, 10:57am.
        :)

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        • #34
          Very snazzy layout they have there.
          vBulletin 5.0 coming soon... :confused:
          Visit my site today!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dean C View Post
            Alex, Zachery's point was exactly what you just argued...
            Ahh my fault! I just saw it as a defense for using the current table layout. My sincere apologies...

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            • #36
              Originally posted by AlexanderT View Post
              Ahh my fault! I just saw it as a defense for using the current table layout. My sincere apologies...
              I accept them on Zach's behalf
              Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

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              • #37
                Seeing how it was, and where it is now .. great step forward. It's a good start moving into the right direction. It looks a lot like the web20-like design ubuntuforums.org use. Which is also quite pretty.

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                • #38
                  I wish vBulletin will move toward css / tableless design.
                  Syrian Medical Society - mi la do - My Hacks - vCharset converter - Projects Queue

                  I want to breathe the freedom, and to strew the mounts of nostalgia in your eyes.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by DirectPixel View Post
                    Then that's bad coding. Layers upon layers of nested <div>'s are not the proper way to code a page.
                    Who exactly decides the 'Proper' way to code a page, Now the css phpbb looks nice I agree but what's with all the fascination with css and why all of a sudden css the right way to code a page.

                    I thought a page was coded correctly if it looks the way you want it to not because some random egg head tells you it conforms to some strange standard or it uses the latest in coding techniques.


                    So as I asked earlier who is the person that popped up and said 'Oy no, thats not proper'?

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                    • #40
                      Well, tables are used for tabular data such as spreadsheets. Divs (CSS) are meant for layouts. But still, I couldn't care less what coding a page used. As long as the page looks fine.

                      Some say that CSS loads faster. How is this true?
                      vBulletin 5.0 coming soon... :confused:
                      Visit my site today!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by miladkk View Post
                        I wish vBulletin will move toward css / tableless design.
                        I don't like the term "tableless" I've seen lots of examples of people actually putting tabular data into divs/css formatting.

                        Using less tables is good, but we need to get over the fad that tables are pure evil.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Zachery View Post
                          I don't like the term "tableless" I've seen lots of examples of people actually putting tabular data into divs/css formatting.

                          Using less tables is good, but we need to get over the fad that tables are pure evil.
                          "I wish vBulletin will move towards a semantically-correct XHTML design."
                          :)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DirectPixel View Post
                            "I wish vBulletin will move towards a semantically-correct XHTML design."
                            Thats better!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by forumguy View Post
                              Some say that CSS loads faster. How is this true?
                              Really depends on the site. Technically, it could be true but it really depends on the coding of the site itself. Most vBulletin sites load faster than ESPN.com, which is "semantically-correct XHTML design". Though ESPN.com probably loads faster than it would if it was a bunch of nested tables. Can't really compare though. Also have to take the browser into account. Some browser engines have problems with nested tables and fast rendering. Others don't. I am sure some have problems with DIV/CSS based rendering.
                              Translations provided by Google.

                              Wayne Luke
                              The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                              vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                              Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by phill2003 View Post
                                Who exactly decides the 'Proper' way to code a page, Now the css phpbb looks nice I agree but what's with all the fascination with css and why all of a sudden css the right way to code a page.

                                I thought a page was coded correctly if it looks the way you want it to not because some random egg head tells you it conforms to some strange standard or it uses the latest in coding techniques.


                                So as I asked earlier who is the person that popped up and said 'Oy no, thats not proper'?
                                The "proper" way to code a page begins with separating your content from your layout. This involves using CSS to style your page and coding your page for content only, using proper XHTML.

                                The next step involves properly coding your XHTML content. While it's nice to have your code validate in W3C's XHTML validator, it's more important that you are coding your page in a semantically correct way. For example, you should divide out the different sections of your page using <div> tags (without unnecessarily nesting multiple <div>'s), marking up your paragraphs using <p> tags, using a heading system that uses the <h1>, <h2>, <h3>, etc. tags, and creating numbered or unordered lists where appropriate (for navigation or lists, for example).

                                Increasingly, an industry "best practice" involves coding not only for your standard Mozilla Firefox/Internet Explorer browser with standard settings, but also for those who are using accessibility enhancements, such as enlarged font sizes, high-contrast display settings, image-less or style-less display settings, and also for limited screen sizes as well.

                                By separating your content from your layout, it is possible to address all the needs of your users with relatively few changes, if any at all, to your content code.
                                :)

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