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I HATE PAYPAL!!!! [email protected]#$%^ stupid PAYPAL!!!!

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  • #31
    I deal with chargebacks and customer service in a job I maintain outside of my website. I'm well aware fo the responsibilities and duties to be performed and moreso have a great deal of understanding in the nature of chargebacks. Yes they favor the consumer, however there are points in which the business can win, especially on proof the customer did not live up in good faith to the original agreement.

    However, as of this current point in time, the customer never made any attempt to even contact me regarding a refund (which I'm more than happy to return if given a legitimate reason). I've even sent a few emails inquiring about the transaction myself and received nothing.

    However, there's a key error in your assumptions Ati2, and that's the transaction involved a form of good or product or service, tangible or intangible. A donation does not fall under any of the above categories. It falls under simply a donation. There's no good to be sold. It's giving money to an organization you feel worthy to receive it.

    Whether it is authorized or not authorized, I have completely no jurisdiction over that. If I had the credit card information, I'd be going through Address verification like crazy and checking to make sure each individual transaction was legitimate. But I don't have access to that information, so it's up to PayPal to determine each transaction and whether it is valid or not.


    One of the key reasons why I'm going after PayPal in this instance is because if I keep swallowing this crap from them, they could steamroll right over me over a totally legit transaction and ignore me from now on. Now if they properly represent me and fight for my my best interest, then I'm more than happy to pay the $40.00. However, there's yet to be any PROOF by PayPal they are fighting as hard as they should. Why? Cause as you've said cirisme, it's a measly 20.00, and they aren't going to devote a whole lot of resources into it cause it's a minor transaction. That's a total breach of the agreement I agreed to when signing up with PayPal. If they don't represent my interests, and in good faith, then they become liable.
    Last edited by ManagerJosh; Thu 26 Oct '06, 11:36pm.
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    • #32
      how about eGold?? is that safe?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
        However, as of this current point in time, the customer never made any attempt to even contact me regarding a refund (which I'm more than happy to return if given a legitimate reason). I've even sent a few emails inquiring about the transaction myself and received nothing.
        If someone stole my credit card, and a transaction I did not make appeared on my bank statement, there would be NO WAY for me to contact the company that charged me. Sure, the comment says "Paypal", and then some sort of identification, but no web address, no postal address, no phone number. I may not even have web access, I may be an 80-year-old war-veteran, whose credit card was stolen, and do not even know what Paypal is. There would be no way for me to contact the merchant, nor would I care. I just go to my bank, tell them that this is a credit card fraud, and they will ask YOU, the merchant for proof that this purchase was indeed made by me. If you cannot prove it, the chargeback takes place.

        Of course, I know that in most cases there is no stolen credit card involved, just some idiot trying to make your life harder. Unfortunately things still work the same way.

        Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
        However, there's a key error in your assumptions Ati2, and that's the transaction involved a form of good or product or service, tangible or intangible. A donation does not fall under any of the above categories. It falls under simply a donation. There's no good to be sold. It's giving money to an organization you feel worthy to receive it.
        If my card was stolen, I would really not care if the thief bought a house, or simply gave my money to a charity...

        I understand your situation, but you must also understand that because there is no phisical product involved that gets shipped to the customer, online companies that help you with credit card payment DO NOT provide any guaranties.

        You could sign up for merchant-protection (or whatever they call it) with WorldPay for example, but this option is not available if you just make online services (such as a donation, or subscription etc.).
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        • #34
          Originally posted by ultranet View Post
          how about eGold?? is that safe?
          I tried e-gold. There is no chargeback for e-gold. Once you receive "money", it stays there.

          On the downside: it took me about half a year to actually get some money onto my e-gold account (there is no way to directly deposit money to your account), and I'm assuming it would take similar amount of time to withdraw money from it.

          Of course, I do not live in the US, it might be easier from there.

          Anyway, I was running e-gold as an option on my site for months, and not a single person used it.
          Queosia - Hódító - Hódító fórum - Spirituális fórum - Spirituális oldal

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          • #35
            I hope this wasn't ManagerJosh.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Steve Machol View Post
              I may be an angry customer, but I'm not an evil angry customer
              ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
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              • #37
                Originally posted by Floris View Post
                Find 15,000 other people who feel like you, everybody put in $5 and start a class action suit?
                I'm in.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by wolfy View Post
                  I'm in.
                  As am I, nothing but grief from them at the moment, just trying to verify an address so a seller knows its me to buy a new phone and 3 times I've been though the process and sent the money and eBay/PayPal is claiming I either haven't done it or changing their mind, and every time its $500 back and forth ...... its been ages now.

                  I've decided to not use either of them any more after this is resolved.
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                  • #39
                    I wish I could do the same - I have not only been burned for 1200 this year by shady programmers and paypals "intangible" TOS, but I set up a seperate account for some of my users to RSVP for a trip we are taking. Some of the users didn't have paypal, so they sent me Cashiers checks. I in turn paypalled the money to (myself) the RSVP account. Paypal waited till I had $1500 in there to inform me my activity was suspicious and closed both accounts.

                    I can have the money back in a very (un)reasonable 180 days, After they have collected enough interest or whatever LOL! Bastards...

                    Now I can't use my name at all on ebay or paypal. I have to do everything in my brothers name.

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                    • #40
                      Adding to the list:

                      I have my PayPal account that i am always access from home (the Netherlands). I was on a holiday in Croatia and accessed my account to check if a payment was made. At that time Croatia seem to be blacklisted by PayPal, and they immediate threatened to block my account because it was accessed from a blacklisted country.

                      Also i don't have a CC (as a lot of people from NL) and there is no way i can get my account verified, so always facing the withdrawal limits etc..
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                      • #41
                        I'm following this thread because I'm usually out about $XXX+ each month due to PayPal's policy on intangible goods & services. Because of that I've also considered sending out some type of physical item to the seller to show proof of shipment. Very frustrating...
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                        • #42
                          I have no qualms about paypal, but I'll do what I can to help those who do (as in giving my $10 to help pay for a lawyer).

                          While I don't have problems with them myself, I could stand to see their policy made for the better.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
                            I deal with chargebacks and customer service in a job I maintain outside of my website. I'm well aware fo the responsibilities and duties to be performed and moreso have a great deal of understanding in the nature of chargebacks. Yes they favor the consumer, however there are points in which the business can win, especially on proof the customer did not live up in good faith to the original agreement.

                            However, as of this current point in time, the customer never made any attempt to even contact me regarding a refund (which I'm more than happy to return if given a legitimate reason). I've even sent a few emails inquiring about the transaction myself and received nothing.

                            However, there's a key error in your assumptions Ati2, and that's the transaction involved a form of good or product or service, tangible or intangible. A donation does not fall under any of the above categories. It falls under simply a donation. There's no good to be sold. It's giving money to an organization you feel worthy to receive it.

                            Whether it is authorized or not authorized, I have completely no jurisdiction over that. If I had the credit card information, I'd be going through Address verification like crazy and checking to make sure each individual transaction was legitimate. But I don't have access to that information, so it's up to PayPal to determine each transaction and whether it is valid or not.


                            One of the key reasons why I'm going after PayPal in this instance is because if I keep swallowing this crap from them, they could steamroll right over me over a totally legit transaction and ignore me from now on. Now if they properly represent me and fight for my my best interest, then I'm more than happy to pay the $40.00. However, there's yet to be any PROOF by PayPal they are fighting as hard as they should. Why? Cause as you've said cirisme, it's a measly 20.00, and they aren't going to devote a whole lot of resources into it cause it's a minor transaction. That's a total breach of the agreement I agreed to when signing up with PayPal. If they don't represent my interests, and in good faith, then they become liable.
                            Not sure about your view there. It's not as though he bought something from you and is after a refund on goods recieved, in that situation I would expect him to contact you first.

                            This was a Donation given for free, so I don't see why he should have to contact you first to ask your permission for it back. If he can simply do a chargeback for it instead because he changed his mind. It's not his fault the way PayPal works means your out of pocket.
                            Last edited by MRGTB; Fri 1 Dec '06, 3:39am.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gary Bolton View Post
                              Not sure about your view there. It's not as though he bought something from you and is after a refund on goods recieved, in that situation I would expect him to contact you first.

                              This was a Donation given for free, so I don't see why he should have to contact you first to ask your permission for it back. If he can simply do a chargeback for it instead because he changed his mind. It's not his fault the way PayPal works means your out of pocket.
                              It sounds like you agree with someone being an "Indian Giver" as long as it's within the rules.

                              Whether he received goods or not, (it sounds to me from managerjosh's post) he entered into a business transaction of his own free will. Any business transaction should be fair to both parties. I would not be caught dead saying I support anything other than that.

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