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  • #31
    Originally posted by Floris View Post
    Joe, if you happen to talk to someone inside Microsoft, tell them they've lost a customer. I will be one of those users that will actually click ' no, I do not agree to these terms ' , and purchase another operating system instead.

    This is getting rediculous. If I have one license, I should have the permission to use that on one system, who gives a crap if I change my motherboard, ram, cpu, or any other part. It shouldn't even affect functionality besides updating a driver.

    The warez version doesn't even ask for a serial anymore, nor activation. it is super easy for those people to install a pirated edition. Whereas as a paying customer you're limited and put in a cage and should pray twice per day and call their hotline to suck up to their company. To get permission to type qwerty without adding the (tm) to every letter.

    This started with XP already, but unfortinatly I had to use it then. I'm moving on. This is too restricted, too expansive, and no longer justified in my eyes.

    I will put Win XP as dual boot to my systems now, so I can still play a game that hasn't come out for linux or mac yet. But they're no longer getting any of my money for their support or products.

    Sorry to be rude, or sound rude rather. But I can't believe that everybody complains about this and still uses it a day later. Pirated or not. I for one won't do that and change to a professional operating system instead.
    I also don't plan to upgrade to Vista, partially because of the now ridiculous license restrictions, and partly because none of Vista has appealed to me now that I've used it.

    The only things stopping me from switching to Linux (I can't believe I just typed that):
    • My system's come to the point where reformatting is a massive undertaking involving lots of drivers, drive management, RAID setup, etc. Instead of the usual few hours it will take, it can take days instead. There's just too much work to put into rebuilding the system until it gets completely unusable.
    • I enjoy playing games.
    • I need to use Photoshop and occasionally Dreamweaver--no substitutes are acceptable at all.
    • I sometimes like coding in C# for Windows applications.
    • I use iTunes extensively, both for listening to music and for seamlessly syncing my iPod.

    Now I realize a lot of that can be solved with Wine, but Wine needs to mature a hell of a lot more to be useful now that I've tried it; only Office works for me, and just barely. However, there would be a strong possibility that I could dual-boot between XP and SuSE Linux 10.1 (or 10.2 or whatever comes out).

    I do very much want a Mac just for Mac OS X, which I consider to be far superior to both Linux and Windows. However, I still can't justify the price premium which, while getting better over the years, is still too expensive compared to traditional PC hardware.
    --filburt1, vBulletin.org/vBulletinTemplates.com moderator
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    • #32
      It's consumers who drive the prices up; not companies.

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      • #33
        Floris, I've raised your concerns about this and the matter will be given some thought before the final release of Vista. I'm gonna keep applying some pressure on the matter to see if they'll revise the policy some more. We'll see how it goes.


        Essentially the best thing to say at the moment is you formatted your computer OR say you upgraded your system. They are basically trying to limit the number of times you move a copy of Windows onto a different machine.
        ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
        Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
          They are basically trying to limit the number of times you move a copy of Windows onto a different machine.
          Why ?
          It sounds more as "I'd like to get more money"
          Italian Body Building & Fitness : www.BodyWeb.com
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Sergio68 View Post
            Why ?
            It sounds more as "I'd like to get more money"
            That's the whole principle with software licensing given the economics-word-I-can't-remember-right-now price for software sales is nearly nothing, especially for downloaded software.

            Oh: marginal price.
            --filburt1, vBulletin.org/vBulletinTemplates.com moderator
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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sergio68 View Post
              Why ?
              It sounds more as "I'd like to get more money"
              Mainly because people are using the same license for many systems at the same time, it's like using your vBulletin license on three or four different sites "if not more", using the same license for each site...

              Which is of course illegal, using vBulletin or Vista, the same goes for both products..
              MCSE, MVP, CCIE
              Microsoft Beta Team

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                Mainly because people are using the same license for many systems at the same time, it's like using your vBulletin license on three or four different sites "if not more", using the same license for each site...

                Which is of course illegal, using vBulletin or Vista, the same goes for both products..
                Not true.
                http://members.vbulletin.com
                Tell me if you can transfer your vBulletin to a different site... Yes.
                Where as Vista:
                In all but a few circumstances, the copy would not be transferrable to a new machine.
                Best Regards,
                Andy Huang

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                  Mainly because people are using the same license for many systems at the same time, it's like using your vBulletin license on three or four different sites "if not more", using the same license for each site...
                  No Joe, that's very different, nobody wants to use one OS in several PCs, they just would like to move to whatever pc they need.

                  MS can check without problems with those thousand of "please introduce code","plese introduce licence number", "please" activate", "please now register", "now click" and so on... everybody knows that Microsoft can control from very quickly what's inside a windows pc

                  Probably they suppose is more convenient like that.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Alfarin View Post
                    Not true.
                    http://members.vbulletin.com
                    Tell me if you can transfer your vBulletin to a different site... Yes.
                    Where as Vista:
                    It really isnt different from Windows XP Licensing, as you can see..


                    Vista's end-user license agreement (EULA) is wrong. Microsoft is further limiting your rights to transfer Windows to new PCs? Wrong. Microsoft is limiting your ability to upgrade your PC? Wrong. Microsoft is limiting the Vista versions you can install in virtual machines? Well, that one is partially correct. But there's a reason.


                    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase..._licensing.asp
                    Last edited by Joe Gronlund; Fri 20 Oct '06, 10:10am.
                    MCSE, MVP, CCIE
                    Microsoft Beta Team

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                    • #40
                      In short, the Vista license agreement just clears up the mess created in Windows XP .
                      ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
                        In short, the Vista license agreement just clears up the mess created in Windows XP .

                        Yes, thats pretty much correct..
                        MCSE, MVP, CCIE
                        Microsoft Beta Team

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Floris View Post
                          You have the option to return the cd to microsoft and get your money back.
                          Even OEM copies? News to me.
                          TheologyWeb. We debate theology. srsly.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                            It really isnt different from Windows XP Licensing, as you can see..
                            For 95% of the users, that's probably true.

                            But from the article you posted:

                            What's more amazing is that the number of people who actually try to do this is incredibly small. Since you can't transfer a copy of Windows that comes with a new PC anyway, less than 10 percent of all Windows licenses are transferable at all. And of those, only a tiny percentage of users have ever tried to even transfer a Windows license once. The only people that really need to do this regularly are hardcore PC enthusiasts who change their machine configurations regularly. In short, this new restriction isn't all that new and it won't affect any mainstream users.
                            "This is a fairly rare thing," Boettcher said. "Edge cases can be accommodated through customer support, but it's a relatively small group: People who are building their own PCs; hard core enthusiasts." Long story short, you'll have to talk to a human being and explain what happened. Just as you have had to do with XP.
                            The question the people on this thread are answering isn't, “Will the majority of people even notice the license changes?” it's... “Will I notice these changes? Do I want to live under these new restrictions?” and Floris (among others) are answering with a resounding no.

                            This is their right. It's appropriate that they look to their needs and decide whether Vista fits those needs in the least intrusive way possible. It may not, in reality, actually limit their usage, but I can understand the annoyance that whether or not you could use your license on a new PC you built rests on the mercy of a Microsoft call employee. I can also understand not supporting a company that wants to monitor your use and treats you like a criminal if you do not fall into the (made up) figure of "95%" of their base.

                            And, no, the argument that this simply clarifies the XP EULA so you shouldn't care is nonsense. Whether they intended to or not, this "clarification" of the EULA does, in fact, change the way the EULA operates in practice. They may have wanted the XP EULA to say this, but it didn't, and this change, by Microsoft's own admission, will have a practical change in the way things operate. Further, I don't think the XP EULA was vague on accident. Though they wanted the XP EULA to say this, they had so much uproar over their vague license they knew they had to change it gradually so more would accept it.

                            So basically what it comes down to is what questions are we asking here? Floris and those who are upset with these changes are asking, “How will this affect me?” and “What practical, actual, changes will result?” whereas you want to ask “How will this affect xx% of XP users?” and “Does the new EULA match the "intentions" of the XP EULA?” which, IMHO, is completely irrelevant in answering the problems Floris/et al have with the new changes.

                            FWIW: I disliked where the license train was headed with the release of XP. Which is why I stuck with Win2k until I made the leap to OS X in replacing my home PC. (the 2k box is in the closet, possibly waiting for an install of Linux) Everyone said, “You'll regret it and come around to XP” but that train has since left the station with all the “Genuine Advantage” crap. I'm quite happy where I am.

                            Also, did anyone notice how all the apologists on this thread were going on and on about stopping piracy, yet the only affected group, according to MSFT reps in the article, will be enthusiasts! I find the (unintentional) acknowledgement that these measures (specifically) will not stop piracy, only legitimate users, amusing. Besides, I'm willing to bet that the number of pirates using stolen volume license keys is at least an order of magnitude higher than those “tiny percentage” of 10% of users who ”have ever tried to even transfer a Windows license once”.
                            Last edited by cirisme; Fri 20 Oct '06, 9:15pm.
                            TheologyWeb. We debate theology. srsly.

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                            • #44
                              Unless I'm misinterpreting your last paragraph, cirisme, your choice of using the word "apologist" needs clarification. Anyway...

                              Originally posted by ManagerJosh View Post
                              In short, the Vista license agreement just clears up the mess created in Windows XP .
                              No. The EULA was never a mess. It's people's interpretations of the EULA that were incorrect. Revisions were made - just as to XP and Office - but the EULA never changed.

                              I did address this in post #13 yet apparently it was either unread or dismissed.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Joe Gronlund View Post
                                Vista's end-user license agreement (EULA) is wrong. Microsoft is further limiting your rights to transfer Windows to new PCs? Wrong. Microsoft is limiting your ability to upgrade your PC? Wrong. Microsoft is limiting the Vista versions you can install in virtual machines? Well, that one is partially correct. But there's a reason.


                                http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase..._licensing.asp
                                From "winsupersite.com" : "As it turns out, the Windows license is pretty simple: Windows is tied to a single device (typically a PC), and not to a person."

                                And then Paul assumes again : "The only people that really need to do this regularly are hardcore PC enthusiasts who change their machine configurations regularly. In short, this new restriction isn't all that new and it won't affect any mainstream users."

                                We'll see on Vista, but I've already past the "point of no return" an year ago, sorry.
                                Italian Body Building & Fitness : www.BodyWeb.com
                                Italian unofficial support Forum : www.vBulletin.it

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