I think we can all agree on this one regardless of political affiliation...

[Steve Machol]

No need to use large fonts to make your point. This is just rude.

[Zonex]

If only he would own up to his words and answer the question I would not need to use them.
Here you go brent.... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=freedom

[BamaStangGuy]

At which point was the Bill of Rights going to go poof?

Are you just stupid?

Those 3k people lost their rights because of The Taliban.

When those planes hit those towers, and Pentagon and that Pennsylvania field their rights went poof.

The bill of rights is just part of the Consititution too.

[Zonex]

They lost their lives. The bill of rights is still around.
BTW, the pentagon and the white house are legitimate military targets.
And dont call me stupid.

[BamaStangGuy]

They lost their lives. The bill of rights is still around.
BTW, the pentagon and the white house are legitimate military targets.
And dont call me stupid.

I didn't call you stupid, I asked you if you were. Simple question.

http://www.september11victims.com/se...ctims_list.htm

They came under attack that day. I don't plan to argue with you over this anymore. You dont wait till they almost go "poof" before you act.

You act when your rights as a citizen of this country are attacked.

[Zonex]

Exactly, has nothing to do with my freedom.

[BamaStangGuy]

Exactly, has nothing to do with my freedom.

Those people lost their freedom in that building.

The WTC is not a "valid" target.

Had you been in that building you would have lost your freedom as well.

You can try to beat around it all you want but common sense says if you die because of an act of war on your country your rights have been violated and something needs to be done to prevent this act of war from happening again.

[RagingPenguin]

I wonder if putting this scenario in different terms helps...

Are you satisfied with a secure php script only? [USA]
Do you also not want a secure server? [WORLD]

Consider it preventive maintenance, which is just as, if not more, effective, than fixing a problem after it's happened.

This will be my last post in this thread.

[Zonex]

You really make no sense. All I can try to explain to you one last time is that our countries freedom has not been at stake since we first fought for it.

You definition of freedom is dead wrong. It's your definition and you are entitled to decide that it is the one you are going to use regardless of what most dictionaries say the word actually means. I will go with what is written in a dictionary over a person on a message board trying to define it to back up his claims. Which is exactly what is happening here.

Have a nice day.

PS. I belive the CIA had offices in the WTC. Just like we bomb building that may contain civilians. We also do what it takes regardless of collateral damage. That's how the US fights wars or do you think for one minute that not one of our bombs killed many an innocent iraqi? Way way way way way way way more than all the people combined on 9/11. Are their lives worth less? To you I bet they are. To me they are not. A life is a life.

[MGM]

*sigh* Why is it that people always stoop down to name-calling and offending remarks? Keep this mature people! If you can't even do that then how are we supposed to take any of you seriously?

MGM out

[Radon3k]

You really make no sense. All I can try to explain to you one last time is that our countries freedom has not been at stake since we first fought for it.

You definition of freedom is dead wrong. It's your definition and you are entitled to decide that it is the one you are going to use regardless of what most dictionaries say the word actually means. I will go with what is written in a dictionary over a person on a message board trying to define it to back up his claims. Which is exactly what is happening here.

Have a nice day.

PS. I belive the CIA had offices in the WTC. Just like we bomb building that may contain civilians. We also do what it takes regardless of collateral damage. That's how the US fights wars or do you think for one minute that not one of our bombs killed many an innocent iraqi? Way way way way way way way more than all the people combined on 9/11. Are their lives worth less? To you I bet they are. To me they are not. A life is a life.

Our freedom was indeed threatened in every conflict we've gotten into one way or another. I'm not going to go through all of the wars but I'll touch on some of them.

In World War II we were attacked by the Japanese. The Japanese had an empire that they were looking to expand. Hitler wanted to rule the world. Had we not stopped him he would have probably succeeded.

The Korean and Vietnam wars were about stopping the spread of Communism. Ever heard of the domino effect? Once one country goes they could all go? Well it started to happen and it needed to be stopped.

The terrorists most certainly are a threat to our freedom and our way of life. If the terrorists had their way the United States would be one big Islamic state. Take a look at Iran's government, for example. It's an Islamic run state. It's not even really about religion, it's about power and money and fear. Of course the terrorists use religion as a cover to justify in their minds what they are doing. If you're afraid to go to a mall because it may be attacked by terrorists, or you're afraid to fly on an airplane because you're afraid that a terrorist may hijack it, then your freedoms have been taken away and the terrorists have succeeded. You no longer feel free to do whatever you please because you're afraid something bad is going to happen to you. Even if you specifically do not feel that way others may feel that way and then it's their freedom that is being threatened.

Just because the mainland may not be directly under attack (which it was, and could be again) does not mean that our freedoms are not being taken away. Don't you think the people who suffered under Saddam Hussein's regime deserver the same rights that we Americans deserve?

[BamaStangGuy]

Our freedom was indeed threatened in every conflict we've gotten into one way or another. I'm not going to go through all of the wars but I'll touch on some of them.

In World War II we were attacked by the Japanese. The Japanese had an empire that they were looking to expand. Hitler wanted to rule the world. Had we not stopped him he would have probably succeeded.

The Korean and Vietnam wars were about stopping the spread of Communism. Ever heard of the domino effect? Once one country goes they could all go? Well it started to happen and it needed to be stopped.

The terrorists most certainly are a threat to our freedom and our way of life. If the terrorists had their way the United States would be one big Islamic state. Take a look at Iran's government, for example. It's an Islamic run state. It's not even really about religion, it's about power and money and fear. Of course the terrorists use religion as a cover to justify in their minds what they are doing. If you're afraid to go to a mall because it may be attacked by terrorists, or you're afraid to fly on an airplane because you're afraid that a terrorist may hijack it, then your freedoms have been taken away and the terrorists have succeeded. You no longer feel free to do whatever you please because you're afraid something bad is going to happen to you. Even if you specifically do not feel that way others may feel that way and then it's their freedom that is being threatened.

Just because the mainland may not be directly under attack (which it was, and could be again) does not mean that our freedoms are not being taken away. Don't you think the people who suffered under Saddam Hussein's regime deserver the same rights that we Americans deserve?

It's pointless man. This guy is so caught up with a dictonary he fails to use common sense.

[Ksilebo]

I may not agree with everything he said, but he did raise the good point that many new soldiers join the military for promises of educational rewards (implying it was the primary benefit).

Yes, 80% probably do enjoy the fact that once they put their life on the line 24/7 for defending their country, a good portion of their college education will be paid for. I think I sold enough of my soul for the last 2 years in the Air Force to deserve that much.

[Onimua]

*sigh* Why is it that people always stoop down to name-calling and offending remarks? Keep this mature people! If you can't even do that then how are we supposed to take any of you seriously?

MGM out

Unfortunately, that didn't last too long and I wish this thread would get closed. Every time political threads open up (except for far few and inbetween), personal attacks begin. I find it ironic that a title with the words "regardless of political affiliation" brought out the political standpoints.

[BamaStangGuy]

Unfortunately, that didn't last too long and I wish this thread would get closed. Every time political threads open up (except for far few and inbetween), personal attacks begin. I find it ironic that a title with the words "regardless of political affiliation" brought out the political standpoints.

If your talking about me I only asked didnt resort to name calling. I for the life of me just could not understand why he could not pull his head out of the damn dictionary for 1 damn minute and use common sense.

Other than that I tried to stay on topic but its impossible.

I am rather disappointed. I thought that we could all agree on Michael Crook being a low life bastard but I guess some people just can't stand to agree with those they dont see eye to eye with and see it fit to start trouble.