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  • I'm aware I won't be using it until it is released, I thought that was obvious. The point is, we should be able to know what is going on for a product that we pay for.

    You might not think the information as valuable, but many do. To many, information about a new release will affect them (read through the thread for examples). Be it integration into a site that will cost a client money, and even more when this new release is supposedly coming out, new feature that may make a new customer or just plain curiosity. Most people like to know what is going on about something they pay for.

    It's not like anything bad can come of a simple, polite listing of what is going on.

    Considering vB being the best bbs on the market with the best support, I think they are seriously lacking in the PR department.

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    • I just want it out Can't wait to play with the new features and see what they are

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      • I could imagine a Developers blog...

        This would allow the developers to unofficially post what they're doing. I could imagine things being posted like how someone tried five different solutions for a bug, before it worked at last in all browsers and everything.
        Or maybe some talk about how to implement a new feature.

        This would give interested members/customers a bit of a look behind the scenes of the Jelsoft factory, allowing them to see what the devs do the whole day.
        Best Regards
        Colin Frei

        Please don't contact me per PM.

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        • That would be great. No information isnt as good as some information. It doesnt have to be all, or even most. Just some.

          Heck, they wont even tell us the next _number_ they are going to use. (come on, we're not children.)

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          • I've sort of been following this thead for a bit, shaking my head and thinking to myself "here we go again!"

            I can remember back when vB3 was announced it was in the works, folks DEMANDED to know a release date, so they said "maybe" *date*.

            Well that just was not good enough for those more vocal on the board, posts popped up everywhere. It was hard to wade through to find relevant posts if looking for something specific.

            So fine, they gave status reports and a quarter date that they admit may or may not be kept. Well geez, if that didn't just make things worse. When they announced they would not met that date, you'd swear to god (or whoever) that Jelsoft did it to personally hurt some people.

            Is it any WONDER they won't say anything? those MOST vocal always seem to be the ones that aren't happy.

            Merk, you state "comeon, we're not childern", well many posters in age are. And many of those who beret Jelsoft in thier own buisnees practises, act it.

            So many posts in these types of threads remind me very much of my 12 year old boy who has ADHD. It seems very sad.

            You have every right to your opionons, you have a right to moan about what you feel is wrong. However, it is also my right to NOT change my mind. It is Jelsofts RIGHT to not change thiers. When it becomes wrong is when you do not respect the opinon of the other.

            From what I've seen so far, they have said that they have heard your (these are all general you's folks) complaint, but sorry, not going to change. Trying to continue to change thier minds is not respectful of thier opinons.

            We paid for a full working released product ... we did NOT pay for "possible" future releases. it is NOT our right to know that. If you pay for a car and they upgrade it next year, you do NOT have the right to demand up front what that is if they choose not to tell you. You did NOT pay for the upgrade, EVEN if knowledge is that future upgrades will coem with it ... maybe. No one has ever, that I know of, said Jelsoft will indefinetly update thier software, it is implied, but not a promise. The only promise is to security fixes.

            And that's my dollars worth on this. (hey, money isn't what it use to be! )

            Comment


            • Good Post, Nighshade!
              Best Regards
              Colin Frei

              Please don't contact me per PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bfoot045
                I know that the release of vBulletin 3 was a disaster by Jelsoft releasing too much information, but why not have a simple roadmap or product update every month, I like everything about vBulletin except this, being secretive is one thing, but its like you guys think we cant handle the truth.

                I am proposing either a roadmap, newsletter, or annoucement, to keep track of new vbulletin features, as well as a very rough estimated release date.

                I would rather this in Chit Chat, than Site Feedback, just because, I can get more comments in Chit Chat(usually)
                So thats the first post, ima skip all the trolling and get right to the point.

                Wouldnt it be nice to have a little info on whats around the corner?

                Yep, it would. However, i dont agree with any of the above, its too formal.

                Very good reason for not giving away freatures has already been mentioned, competition will steal the ideas before you've got yours out the door.

                Obviosly time line is out of the question, id like to say "But something as vague as within 6 months" but unfortunatly thats not the case. I dont have any faith in vBulletin makin even an half assed guess at a release date, so keeping quiet about that is the best idea.

                I'm sure there is a nice balance between giving feature info away and a teaser info. I can only hope vB find it.

                Now you guys feel free to continue to arguing about what you payed for, what customers have a right to, etc.

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                • IF the next version of vBulletin uses OOP and repackages threads, users, forumhome, the admincp, and usercp as objects that can be extended without editing 10 PHP files, then some of us are going to need to dedicate a lot of time to learning and/or brushing up on OOP (I've never managed to wrap my head around it). This also means a fundamental change in how hacks are written and installed.

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                  • I honestly got tired of reading the posts after the second page, so if this has been said before, I apologize.

                    I would like to see the release of the new version as much as the next person, but if they do not want to give spoilers then that is their choice. I agree that if there is going to be a new programming/design style, then a little information on that should be released, but not the entire feature list. Personally, I think it would have been enough to say...

                    "You know what? vBulletin is worth the wait. Whenever they release the new version, it will still be the best choice in software out there."

                    Then again, that is me.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Colin F
                      I could imagine a Developers blog...

                      This would allow the developers to unofficially post what they're doing. I could imagine things being posted like how someone tried five different solutions for a bug, before it worked at last in all browsers and everything.
                      Or maybe some talk about how to implement a new feature.

                      This would give interested members/customers a bit of a look behind the scenes of the Jelsoft factory, allowing them to see what the devs do the whole day.
                      http://www.macvicar.net/
                      Originally Posted by Zachery
                      John originally presented vBulletin to Infopop, they didn't take it, so he took it and sold it

                      Originally Posted by Martin
                      We had to do a lot of arm twisting to get him to do it, though. I would imagine he still hates us.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MetalGearMaster

                        You, as a paying customer, have the right to use their product. The future of the poduct doesn't matter, since it won't effect you until it's release. Knowing information on it won't affect you, since you won't be able to use it until it's release. Why, again, do you need that information?

                        Ludicrous. Of course it affects people. If someone needs features that are available right now in a competitor's software, but are not in vB (such as Persistent Read Marking), knowing when vB will be coming out with it can very easily affect your decision as to whose product to buy.

                        That's only one example - but I think it makes a clear point as to how knowing the Release Date can be "handy".
                        echo $ocean_signature;

                        ;)

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                        • Originally posted by Nightshade

                          From what I've seen so far, they have said that they have heard your (these are all general you's folks) complaint, but sorry, not going to change. Trying to continue to change thier minds is not respectful of thier opinons.

                          Microsoft routinely makes development decisions based on how they want to run their business. Now, you can say that it's not respectful to try to continue to change their opinions.

                          But it's very different between whether we're talking about one person to another - or a customer to a business.

                          People have continued to tell Microsoft that some of their business practices or development decisions were wrong (such as leaving IE to dry out and die). That's not disrespectful. That's exercising your right as a customer, and there's nothing wrong - or even disrespectful - about that.


                          Originally posted by Nightshade

                          We paid for a full working released product ... we did NOT pay for "possible" future releases. it is NOT our right to know that. If you pay for a car and they upgrade it next year, you do NOT have the right to demand up front what that is if they choose not to tell you. You did NOT pay for the upgrade, EVEN if knowledge is that future upgrades will coem with it ... maybe. No one has ever, that I know of, said Jelsoft will indefinetly update thier software, it is implied, but not a promise. The only promise is to security fixes.
                          Actually, you're wrong. I did pay for possible future releases. When I choose a software product to purchase - I do not choose a product that is dead and will no longer be developed. I specifically look for software that is still actively being developed - both for bug fixes, as well as for future improvements.

                          It is a hassle to change products once you've implemented them - so it's important to make your initial decisions wisely. This situation is even more relevant, given the fact that many of Jelsoft's customers continue to pay an annual fee for that very development I referenced earlier. And, no - people don't just pay that for bug fixes, they are also paying for the ability to upgrade to the next - improved - version.

                          If you don't believe me - just imagine if Jelsoft changed their policy so that the annual fee ONLY covered bug fixes - but you had to pay all over again for new versions.

                          You'd have a new children's book - "See Jelsoft's Revenue Drop".
                          echo $ocean_signature;

                          ;)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Nemon

                            Now you guys feel free to continue to arguing about what you payed for, what customers have a right to, etc.

                            Thank you, Nemon, we will.
                            echo $ocean_signature;

                            ;)

                            Comment


                            • Well said Ocean

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                              • Originally posted by Nightshade
                                And that's my dollars worth on this. (hey, money isn't what it use to be! )
                                Your dollar is worth a lot more than many 2 cents I've seen.
                                Avatar Chat

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