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  • presidential debate

    Did anyone watch it last night? I was in class. I am curious to know your overall impressions.

    Are there any official video feeds of the debate?
    61
    Kerry
    65.57%
    40
    Bush
    26.23%
    16
    Tie
    8.20%
    5

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jake Bunce
    Did anyone watch it last night? I was in class. I am curious to know your overall impressions.

    Are there any official video feeds of the debate?
    I watched the first 45 minutes but could'nt finish, had to drive somewhere and by the time I got back it was off.

    I re-call bush asking for an extention at one point, only to look into the camera with his mouth open for the first 5 - 10 seconds

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Brad.loo
      I re-call bush asking for an extention at one point, only to look into the camera with his mouth open for the first 5 - 10 seconds
      Well, I think it is generally accepted that Bush isn't the best public speaker, but I am more interested in the issues.

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      • #4
        I have it on TiVo, and I'm planning on watching the full thing tonight.

        From the highlights I saw on TV, it was a reaffirmation that both candidates aren't the best. I like Kerry a little more because (a) he's a democrat (b) he's not Bush (c) he's against drilling in Alaska (d) he's against the Federal Marriage Amendment and (e) he seems more open than Bush is. But my opinion is negligible as I can't vote.
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        • #5
          Here is video from the debate from Fox News. It looks like it's the entire debate broken into parts. CNN also has something on their homepage.

          I watched the debate. This was John Kerry's chance to answer a lot of questions that many people are asking. I don't believe he answered them as well as he should have. He kept saying he had all these plans for a better America and how to make it safer though I didn't hear that many specific details.

          One thing that stood out a lot to me, however was when he said that he was going to get more UN support for Iraq and seek to get other countries involved with helping in Iraq yet at the same time saying that this was the "wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time". I don't know how he plans on convincing other nations to give support when he doesn't believe that this war was right. He also mentioned that our troops are over there without the necessary armor that they need in order to survive yet he is the one that voted against things such as this.

          ABC is saying that Kerry won the debate but I've also heard that the Washington Post is saying Bush won the debate and I've also heard that some Kerry campaign people have said that the debate was a draw.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jake Bunce
            Well, I think it is generally accepted that Bush isn't the best public speaker, but I am more interested in the issues.
            Sorry,

            I echo radon's posts, kerry talked alot about plans without many details, while bush seemed to talk alot about kerry's piror records (voting for things only be say they where wrong later) and how a president can't be so flip-flop on the issues.

            Most of what I saw had to do with iraq or terroism as a whole, I really wanted to see more questions to the canadates about what they are going to do about the situation at home.

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            • #7
              Most of what I saw had to do with iraq or terroism as a whole, I really wanted to see more questions to the canadates about what they are going to do about the situation at home.
              Domestic policy will be specifically debated in one of the next debates(last, I think).
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Radon3k
                ABC is saying that Kerry won the debate but I've also heard that the Washington Post is saying Bush won the debate and I've also heard that some Kerry campaign people have said that the debate was a draw.
                CNN's numbers were about 50%/35% in favor of Kerry. I don't think anybody ever "wins" a debate, though (and no, that does not imply that I am publicly favoring one candidate over another, even though I do). The whole point is to solidify and clarify the candidates' opinions on the discussion topics.

                I just don't know how so many people can still be undecided. The candidates are near-opposites...make up your minds already.
                Originally posted by Brad.loo
                Most of what I saw had to do with iraq or terroism as a whole, I really wanted to see more questions to the canadates about what they are going to do about the situation at home.
                Likewise. My politics professor brought up the point that nobody even talked about the (IIRC) $7 trillion national debt.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by daemon
                  I have it on TiVo, and I'm planning on watching the full thing tonight.
                  Same here... Will watch it tonight.
                  Translations provided by Google.

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                  • #10
                    Kerry did a good job, Bush did the usual by not impressing me.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cirisme
                      Domestic policy will be specifically debated in one of the next debates(last, I think).
                      That is correct... This debate was specifically for foreign policy only. The next one will be on domestic policy only. The third is supposed to be a town hall style meeting.
                      Translations provided by Google.

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                      • #12
                        It is still pretty funny how in the entire debate Bush is constantly linking Iraq to terrorists, and why Kerry hasn't pushed that issue further.

                        It wasn't about liberating a country from a tyrant, not from what Bush debated on, anyway ... it was always an effort to (a) keep the memory of 9/11 fresh in people's minds, even those who have recovered and succeeded in moving on, and (b) an effort to be resolute at being, well, resolute. He banked his entire debate on the flipflop argument and making Kerry look bad that he failed to make a clear image of how he will actually deal with problems.

                        It's curious how the words "war on terror" is a magic word that hypnotizes Americans into believing anything. People who support Bush will always believe invading Iraq is right, no matter what the reasons are. And Bush knows that, he knows that people don't care if there were WMDs or not, they just want those "terrorists" (sic) dead.

                        The whole debate was amusing, especially at how clearly Kerry kept his composure and how Bush got visibly pissed. Kerry got to him, and for sure Bush'll still be banking on the entire flipflop argument until the elections - after all, he doesn't have anything more useful to use against the opponent
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                        • #13
                          I watched it, having to stay up until about 4am here to do so. I am amazed it can be called it debate, its more like a join press conference; they don't even get to ask each other questions, and somehow they are also allowed to not answer the question; the moderator should be able to press for an answer to the actual question; still it was interesting to watch.


                          My thoughts in no particular order:
                          • I was a little surprised how nervous Kerry appeared to be at the start; although of course I can understand why. He certainly got into it though.
                          • Bush was good when we was scripted. When he was talking about Afghanistan and elections; remvoing Saddam as being good and how his job is protecting America. He also showed a good element of compasion that didn't look as fake as it sometimes can from either party.
                          • Kerry missed a number of opportunites to hammer Bush. He was asked the gift question of "Give us some examples of Bush lieing". Kerry went over the usual stuff about WMD which while important had already been mentioned so many times. A quick list from Chalibi to Niger, from Bush's description of Iraq on the ground to the Bush's obstruction of September 11 commission. Kerry missed good opportunity here.
                          • Bush played the "flip flopper" card well. Kerry countered it relativly well but should have turned the tables on Bush, examples would include "Lets disband the Iraqi Army" .. oops "Lets reemploy them". Lets trust Chalibi, oh, lets not. Lets let the iraqis loot/steal to oh, security might be important on the ground. From Osama being most important person to find, to I am not really bothered about it. Kerry failed to turn the cards around.
                          • Kerry made the point that Iraq is a distraction from the war very well. Bush gave the feeble response about terror being everywhere. Right, but priorities.
                          • Bush was a little random at some points. Where did that whole bit about the Internation Court come from? I thought he might try and link it to Kerry and Vietnamn war crimes but he didn't.
                          • Fortunatly there was little of the Vietnamn service fighting. Kerry mentioned it twice I think as evidence of experience; fair enough.
                          • I think Kerry made his point about what he thinks of Iraq well. That he voted to give the President the authority to go to war if necessary. That he thiks war was necessary if done under certain criteria, which Bush failed to do. That, given hindsight the war was wrong and that now we are in it we must win. These points where pretty clear and I thought he expressed them well, Bush continued to say he changed his mind; maybe he dosen't understnad was Kerry said or just dosen't want to I don't know.
                          • Very little was really mentioned about Korea/Iran etc. Bush was wrong about Korea in all the other people in the 5 nations talk want US to have unilateral talks with Korea to bring Korea to the table; whether that is a good ideea or not I don't know.
                          • Intersting talking about the coalition. No one seemed to mention Australia (or interestingly Spain). Bush seemed very proud of himself mentioning Poland, doubt that is going to impress many people.
                          • Kerry continues to exagerate the cost of the war in Iraq. Its $120 billion so far, not $200 billion (although it will be)
                          I did miss the last 10 mins or so, so some of those points might be wrong based on that.

                          I don't know who won, a lot of it is the expectations game. Clearly Bush wastn't going to say something new to us, it was a matter of him surviving and not making a complete fool of himself (which he didn't). Kerry had the most to win. I am not sure he did enough; he didn't really get at Bush on the questions he needed to although I think he did make his stance on Iraq much clearer.

                          Anyway, the VP debate will be interesting ..
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                          • #14
                            Basically the debates were more of a place for the candidates to restate the same things they've been saying for 3 months then to actually address any issues. One of the first things you learn in political science is how easy it is to dodge an issue and take a question and turn it on its head. Bush stuck to flames and comments on Kerry for most of his answers with a hint of more to come, Kerry stuck to vague ideas and statements about what needs to change but not how to change it (business as usual for both sides). There were of course a few actual political thoughts expressed through the night but those were rare and always are.



                            The important thing to realize here is that unless one candidate takes a major deviation from their normal comments/responses they are not going to gain any voters. People who support Bush and the idea that Iraq is a war on terror are not going to listen to Kerry talk about the idea of fixing Iraq. People who support Kerry and dislike Iraq entirely are not going to listen to Bush talk about Iraq being a terror state. Neither candidate decided to do anything new in these debates and honestly, from what I can gather up about the current numbers; Kerry's inability to adapt is going to cost him an election. Bush has not done well breaking into the moderate group, which should have left Kerry with a clear win but he just isn't capitalizing on Bush's mistakes in a good way.



                            Debates like this hardly help anyone and really with all the rules, the preformatted questions and the nearly memorized answers it isn't a big surprise when you hear nothing but the same old garbage. In this case it didn’t even matter who you liked, watching the “Attacks” (I don’t consider them debates anymore) didn’t help you learn about either candidate at all.

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                            • #15
                              From everything that I have been hearing, this was mostly a debate based upon style rather than the actual issues. Kerry looked much more relaxed and composed than Bush did and that is what has had an impact. I have heard this same thing on just about every radio commentary last night and today.

                              I myself enjoy hearing Bush speak. I do hate how he always repeats things and from one speech to the next, you can almost always expect to heat the same things.

                              One thing I was very pleased with was how he did say there would NOT be a draft. He put to rest all the stupid "there is going to be a draft" rumours if Bush gets elected garbage that was propaganda meant to scare young people into not voting for Bush.
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