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Best Examples of Tableless Web Designs?

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  • #16
    Dang...after seeing all this, we gotta get tutorials and guides
    ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
    Director, WorldSims.org | Gaming Hosting Administrator, SimGames.net, Urban Online Entertainment

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dean C
      You'll find loads of great designs over @ www.cssvault.com
      www.cssbeauty.com
      www.unmatchedstyle.com
      www.weeklystandards.com

      That's the end of that!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ManagerJosh
        Dang...after seeing all this, we gotta get tutorials and guides
        http://www.webtrickscentral.com/tuto...?type=xhtmlCss

        (Also an example of a three-column layout.)
        http://www.webtrickscentral.com/images/wtcsig.jpg

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ManagerJosh
          It appears that Tableless Webdesigns are the biggest thing since the wheel at the moment, so I was wondering if we could get a list of sites with excellent examples and designs using the tableless method.

          I'd be interested in seeing what they did and how they did it.
          also interresting: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...ableless+style
          Originally Posted by Zachery
          John originally presented vBulletin to Infopop, they didn't take it, so he took it and sold it

          Originally Posted by Martin
          We had to do a lot of arm twisting to get him to do it, though. I would imagine he still hates us.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Wayne Luke
            What happens when a new device becomes the prominent access to the Internet? Out of the Billion Cell Phones in use, how many of them can use your website with its table-generated design? If you wanted to cater to these people how much work would be involved?

            With a CSS layout, you can alter the design based on the device or even the width of the user's web browser. For instance, on a site I am building currently, the available space increases according to the width of the browser. Which can be done with tables and using percentages but I also have a minimum width of 770 px and a maximum width of 1000 px for the entire layout. You can't do that easily in tables.

            Or what if it is viewed on a small screen like a PDA or Cell Phone. With CSS, you can eliminate images, move navigation, change the layout from a 3 column to 2 column or even a 1 column design based on the device. With CSS, you can adjust the voice and timber of the sound given to the user on their screen readers. With CSS you can reformat your page for the printer without providing an alternate page of HTML for printing. This is where the power of the layout comes in.

            If you only want to work on websites that work on a computer monitor at specific resolutions then use tables. If you want to design web applications that can work on any device (current or future) than use CSS to create your layouts.

            However, I do agree there are limits. I don't follow a strict table-less design methodology because the web browsers of today are in an in-between state and don't quite get CSS completely.
            oooh..... interesting post.... I get what you're saying... but I'm just saying that CSS doesn't allow the amount of.... well.... let's put it this way, what would vBulletin look like without tables? Forget about browser issues and limitations... using just CSS and no tables, what would vB3 look like? I think I saw someone doing this before and it looked like crap (no offense to whoever made it, CSS-wise it's a beautiful piece of work). My own sites and boards wouldn't look very good either.

            Sure, allowing it to work with PDA's and cell phones and what-not is a good advantage, but really, how many people visit YOUR site using PDA's and cell phones? Probably not very many, so why make your site look..... a little less "good" using CSS for the majority of users who visit it? Just so that those same people can access your site on a PDA or cell phone?

            Not a rant, just playing devil's advocate

            MGM out

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MetalGearMaster
              let's put it this way, what would vBulletin look like without tables? Forget about browser issues and limitations... using just CSS and no tables, what would vB3 look like?
              Originally posted by _| () R | Z
              (...)
              Originally Posted by Zachery
              John originally presented vBulletin to Infopop, they didn't take it, so he took it and sold it

              Originally Posted by Martin
              We had to do a lot of arm twisting to get him to do it, though. I would imagine he still hates us.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by MetalGearMaster
                oooh..... interesting post.... I get what you're saying... but I'm just saying that CSS doesn't allow the amount of.... well.... let's put it this way, what would vBulletin look like without tables? Forget about browser issues and limitations... using just CSS and no tables, what would vB3 look like? I think I saw someone doing this before and it looked like crap (no offense to whoever made it, CSS-wise it's a beautiful piece of work). My own sites and boards wouldn't look very good either.
                Nobody ever said to stop using tables, they said to stop using tables for building a design. Tables should always be used for tabular data, and using CSS and no tables to present tabular data is horrible practice.

                Thusly, vBulletin uses tables where they are supposed to be used.
                http://www.webtrickscentral.com/images/wtcsig.jpg

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                • #23
                  AHH!

                  i only just start to learn one thing, and another one becomes "the next big thing"

                  WHEN WILL THIS MADNESS END.

                  but yay for the interweb advancing!

                  (speaking of which, has anyone got any info/links on this internet2 i keep hearing about? sounds like RIAA's worst nightmare)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jamslam
                    Nobody ever said to stop using tables, they said to stop using tables for building a design. Tables should always be used for tabular data, and using CSS and no tables to present tabular data is horrible practice.

                    Thusly, vBulletin uses tables where they are supposed to be used.
                    If you put it that way but the way some people are phrasing it it's like they want everything to be CSS

                    and nebby just proved my point lol

                    MGM out

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MetalGearMaster
                      but the way some people are phrasing it it's like they want everything to be CSS
                      Then they are wrong. Tables are only used for tabular data and nothing more.
                      http://www.webtrickscentral.com/images/wtcsig.jpg

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                      • #26
                        Ive seen people make tables out of divs for some crazy reason

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                        • #27
                          the same things have been said about DHTML when it first came out several years ago, with people saying it'll replace HTML as we know it...

                          Correct me if I'm wrong, but HTML is still here, and DHTML is, well, not the "IN" thing anymore
                          OPEN TECH SUPPORT
                          "Tech is our middle name!"

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Zachery
                            Ive seen people make tables out of divs for some crazy reason
                            Oh yea, it's quite possible but isn't very reliable and can break easily (more or less because of the hacks required and other workarounds).

                            Originally posted by Tolitz
                            the same things have been said about DHTML when it first came out several years ago, with people saying it'll replace HTML as we know it...

                            Correct me if I'm wrong, but HTML is still here, and DHTML is, well, not the "IN" thing anymore
                            I don't understand why anyone would ever claim that DHTML would replace HTML. It was never intended to replace HTML. DHTML relies on HTML's existance. If HTML doesn't exist, neither does DHTML. DHTML is simply using javascript's DOM, that's all.

                            XHTML however, will replace HTML.

                            You also can't compare this "latest craze" with the DHTML frenzy. Using tables to layout your page has always been wrong, but the poor support for CSS in browsers made it inevitable. Now that the modern browsers have enough support for CSS, there are no excuses as to why you shouldn't use CSS to lay out your pages.

                            Originally posted by World Wide Web Consortium
                            The very first version of HTML was designed to represent the structure of a document, not its presentation. Even though presentation-oriented elements were later added to the language by browser manufacturers, HTML is at heart a document structuring language. XHTML 2 takes HTML back to these roots, by removing all presentation elements, and subordinating all presentation to stylesheets. This gives greater flexibility, greater accessibility, more device independence, and more powerful presentation possibilities, since stylesheets can do more than the presentational elements of HTML ever did.
                            http://www.webtrickscentral.com/images/wtcsig.jpg

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Lacrosse Boy
                              That's interesting.

                              Currently I prefer tables. I don't know why they would be considered for only tabular data unless you are using the Lotus 1-2-3 mentality. I actually prefer websites that have tables as opposed to those ones listed.
                              Is this just a trend?[/QUOTE]

                              If you're referring to making webpages using the web equivalent of a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet yeah it is.

                              Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                              I don't follow a strict table-less design methodology because the web browsers of today are in an in-between state and don't quite get CSS completely.
                              I do (it makes life easier). I either hack my stylesheets (with standards compliant hacks), install IE7, let my visitors have a degraded experience (which they'd get anyway with IE's rendering engine) or a combination.

                              Originally posted by Sn2
                              The file size of the page can be significantly reduced when using CSS, also bandwidth will be saved when browsers cache the stylesheet.
                              Not to mention rendering times decrease as the calculations needed to render the page go down (thus allowing older PCs to view the latest and greatest webpages).

                              Originally posted by ManagerJosh
                              Dang...after seeing all this, we gotta get tutorials and guides
                              http://www.alistapart.com/
                              http://www.thenoodleincident.com/
                              http://positioniseverything.net/
                              http://www.quirksmode.org/
                              http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/ - It is not a tutorial or a guide but it will be very helpful in regard to IE's rendering engine

                              Originally posted by MetalGearMaster
                              using just CSS and no tables, what would vB3 look like?
                              You'd be able to decide that extremely easily by just styling your forums (or using the default stylesheet which I'd imagine would look similiar to what you see now).

                              Originally posted by jamslam
                              Nobody ever said to stop using tables, they said to stop using tables for building a design. Tables should always be used for tabular data, and using CSS and no tables to present tabular data is horrible practice.

                              Thusly, vBulletin uses tables where they are supposed to be used.
                              It doesn't only use tables for its design. It also uses them to ensure backwards compatibility (personally I'd like the devs to make a 2nd optionally downloadable style that is designed without outdated rendering engines into consideration).

                              Originally posted by jamslam
                              Now that the modern browsers have enough support for CSS, there are no excuses as to why you shouldn't use CSS to lay out your pages.
                              Unfortunately, the most used browser in the world doesn't have a modern rendering engine. The mozilla foundation is beginning to resolve that issue through.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dean C
                                You'll find loads of great designs over @ www.cssvault.com
                                One of my fav's. And it not just good for CSS inspirations. You can really see some great use of color on a lot of those sites as well...
                                Bob- (pank)
                                pankpages.com / http://twitter.com/_pank

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