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  • Web Standards, CSS, etc.

    I'm curious as to what people here think about Web standards, how they go about using them, what they use CSS for (to what extents), etc. etc.

    On this topic, the WaSP have just released a survey on Web Standards, which you may wish to check out if you have any interest at all in Standards.

    As for myself, I am a Standards-enthousiast, CSS-whore, and think that a *lot* of people would benefit from staying up to date with standards and new developments on the Web, hence try to convince as many people to try their hand at CSS-based designing, and point them to good blogs that I read myself (and have learned a Lot from).

    What about you all?
    53
    Standards? Wha? Isn't CSS what you use for link hovers?
    1.89%
    1
    I'm moderately aware of them, but I still use tables for my site layouts, and I don't validate...
    22.64%
    12
    I try to get things validated, but I don't know enough CSS yet to make CSS-layouts...
    28.30%
    15
    I'm a purist, everything validates with me and I don't use tables for layout
    47.17%
    25

  • #2
    I use css when I can, but I don't comply to standards like they where gods written law. IMHO getting your content up should come first.

    Right now I have a vB going up, it uses tables where it should'nt and dos'nt comply, but it works with anything I throw at it just fine.

    I'm sure ill have it up to standards someday, but right now I would much rather start building my community/site.

    Comment


    • #3
      I ADMIT IT

      I AM NOT SKILLED ENOUGH!!

      But getting there slowly

      I try my best to use proper xhtml and css code to get the best results for any end-user's experience on a site, but sometimes it is just faster to slap in old html 3.2

      Comment


      • #4
        I am learning it more in depth this summer but at the moment I use CSS for formatting only. I'm not particularly keen on using something that in the most popularly used browser does not even work as it should (you have to mess around doing things to make it work).
        Dean Clatworthy - Web Developer/Designer

        Comment


        • #5
          I purchased the book HTML Utopia: Designing Without Tables Using CSS and don't regret it

          Comment


          • #6
            No change of getting a purely CSS based design as you limit any IE users to IE6. We tried divs and css for the postbit display in the vB3 betas and it was nothing but headaches.
            Scott MacVicar

            My Blog | Twitter

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dean C
              I am learning it more in depth this summer but at the moment I use CSS for formatting only. I'm not particularly keen on using something that in the most popularly used browser does not even work as it should (you have to mess around doing things to make it work).
              Major exaggeration, that.

              A lot of things work just fine in IE, I've made various CSS-based sites that work without any major problem in IE5--6.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Scott MacVicar
                No change of getting a purely CSS based design as you limit any IE users to IE6. We tried divs and css for the postbit display in the vB3 betas and it was nothing but headaches.
                I'm doing exactly that and limiting IE users to 5.01, 5.5 or 6.0 - so basically, I'm ruling out Netscape 4.7, IE 3 and IE 4. Those get non-positioned content.

                I'd say that's not too bad

                Comment


                • #9
                  me -> purist

                  I don't use tables for layout but i do use tables for tabular data.
                  That's the end of that!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Im not fussed either way. I dont get paid to design websites, so ill do it the quickest neatest way possible.

                    That generally means using tables formatted via css.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Most of my work consists of vBulletin stuff, so I stick to tables and such for that. However a majority of the look I style through CSS.

                      All my other stuff I use purely CSS.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by merk
                        Im not fussed either way. I dont get paid to design websites, so ill do it the quickest neatest way possible.

                        That generally means using tables formatted via css.
                        This is how I work... Looking good on the screen is the primary concern then after that if it might be standards compliant so be it.

                        Since there is no way to do a 3 column design with a header and floating footer under the longest column without using Javascript, I will use tables for that kind of layout first and fore most.
                        Translations provided by Google.

                        Wayne Luke
                        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                        vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                        Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
                          This is how I work... Looking good on the screen is the primary concern then after that if it might be standards compliant so be it.
                          I'd say things like Search engine optimization, accessibility, speed and flexibility are still rather important, too...

                          Since there is no way to do a 3 column design with a header and floating footer under the longest column without using Javascript, I will use tables for that kind of layout first and fore most.
                          Sorry to prove you wrong

                          Additionally, 3-column designs with header and floating footer can be done in CSS properly in many ways, and plenty of them don't really require (many) CSS hacks to make them work in IE.x - the example I just linked to is a very powerful, pixel-perfect, feature-stuffed version, that can do some things you can't with tables.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Faruk
                            Sorry to prove you wrong

                            Additionally, 3-column designs with header and floating footer can be done in CSS properly in many ways, and plenty of them don't really require (many) CSS hacks to make them work in IE.x - the example I just linked to is a very powerful, pixel-perfect, feature-stuffed version, that can do some things you can't with tables.
                            Sure try that with floating columns. This uses fixed and absolutely positioned divs to acheive this. It cannot be done with Floating Columns without Javascript. As stated above. Every proposed solution that I have seen has failed miserably without using Javascript to reposition divs after the screen is drawn.

                            Oh well each to their own. I personally don't want to spend half of my waking life trying to make sure that a design works in 15 bazillion browsers, fits standards and is actually useable. If you do then more power to you. Since any site I personally design is for non-technical people then I design for the web browser they are most likely to use and that is Internet Explorer. If it works in all the off-the-wall browsers out there than more power to it. I am not trying to make a political statement, I am not trying to change the Internet, I am not about propaganda and hating something because I am told to hate it.

                            There are no proven benefits from a standards compliant site over a table layout. There are junk sites in #1 positions of the search engines with no regards to standards and standards compliant sites buried on page 4. I have seen Standards Compliant sites that are completely unusuable and not even aesthetically pleasing and vice versa. All that comes from the person behind the site not the site itself. They don't simply appear on the Internet.
                            Translations provided by Google.

                            Wayne Luke
                            The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                            vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                            Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anything I code does not use tables in the layout, fully complies with the W3 specifications (XHTML 1.0, CSS 1, CSS 2; I'm working on getting it to XHTML 1.1 but I have trouble giving up target="_blank") and uses CSS for virtually everything presentational (no b, u, i, font, etc tags).

                              With the exception of vBulletin, virtually everything on my site follows these guidelines. I wanted to make vBulletin follow them as well but when I saw how much I would have had to do, I changed my mind.

                              Comment

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