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  • MrNase
    replied
    I've been invited to take gmail for a testdrive

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris|vB
    replied
    Sounds good.

    Leave a comment:


  • bladenut
    replied
    So is this an official GMail discussion group, or are people just postulating based on the announcement?

    --bladenut

    Leave a comment:


  • cirisme
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    Dean maybe you should read before you write? As I said already, the text is not my argument, I have no opinions as to privacy with GMail. I couldn't give a crap to be honest.

    cirisme, read what I just said to Dean. =)
    Still doesn't make email private.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chen
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice - I'm not aware of Yahoo! or Hotmail crawling through your emails, are you? I agree that anybody could and probably does read through my mail before it reaches its destination. But one of the main concerns with this privacy group people who've voiced complaints is that Google crawl your mail.

    If you wish to argue with anybody argue with Google and the privacy rights group, it's their battle not mine. As they say don't shoot the messenger.
    I was referring to the European laws according to which Google is required to completely delete the emails when the users request to have them deleted. As I already said I don't really care what indexing system Google uses to scan my messages, and I'm sure any other service provider that performs millions of searches every day would also index your messages. Google is simply bashed for being honest about it.

    Of course there are risks to storing your emails, or any other information, on a third party system. People who really want "privacy" should use their own servers with some kind of encryption methods to prevent others from reading their emails... but is this really required for someone that is just sending an email to his family from Ecuador to say he's alright? I don't think people who currenty use webmail would refrain from using Google just because of its policies.

    I don't wish to blame you for all that is wrong in this world, just trying to develop a discussion on a discussion board.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Gwynne
    replied
    I don't work for Hotmail, sorry.

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  • okrogius
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    Where have you said it wasn't?

    Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice - I'm not aware of Yahoo! or Hotmail crawling through your emails, are you? I agree that anybody could and probably does read through my mail before it reaches its destination. But one of the main concerns with this privacy group people who've voiced complaints is that Google crawl your mail.

    If you wish to argue with anybody argue with Google and the privacy rights group, it's their battle not mine. As they say don't shoot the messenger.
    I'm not sure about Yahoo, but this (example from hotmail) most likely will also apply.

    You can search your hotmail inbox(es). Would you tell me how the search works if some script doesn't read your email?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Gwynne
    replied
    Originally posted by Chen
    Where have I said it was?
    Where have you said it wasn't?

    Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice - I'm not aware of Yahoo! or Hotmail crawling through your emails, are you? I agree that anybody could and probably does read through my mail before it reaches its destination. But one of the main concerns with this privacy group people who've voiced complaints is that Google crawl your mail.

    If you wish to argue with anybody argue with Google and the privacy rights group, it's their battle not mine. As they say don't shoot the messenger.
    Last edited by Chris Gwynne; Tue 6th Apr '04, 4:59pm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chen
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    For one, it's not my quote Chen. It's off CNN, the views of privacy groups.
    Where have I said it was?

    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    Secondly, no doubt by using a public forum you assumed the risk of having your posts displayed and to be read by anyone. Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice, so your argument is both null and void.
    Yes, when I post here I assume everyone will be able to read what I post, but I also assume that when I choose to delete the post it will really be deleted and not just hidden. As far as email being private, that is amusing at best, considering the number of servers your messages bounce through before reaching their destination. And unlike real mail, which has to be unsealed in order to be read, you will never know that your email was "opened" or read by anyone before it reached the recipient.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Gwynne
    replied
    Originally posted by Dean C
    So is yours Chris - you think google won't have a clear-cut and carefully worded privacy policy that must be readable prior to signing up for an account? It'll obviously highlight that the emails are held in a spiderable database etc..
    Dean maybe you should read before you write? As I said already, the text is not my argument, I have no opinions as to privacy with GMail. I couldn't give a crap to be honest.

    cirisme, read what I just said to Dean. =)

    Leave a comment:


  • cirisme
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    For one, it's not my quote Chen. It's off CNN, the views of privacy groups.

    Secondly, no doubt by using a public forum you assumed the risk of having your posts displayed and to be read by anyone. Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice, so your argument is both null and void.
    Email is private? It is no such thing!

    It is as private as a postcard. If you're concerned about your privacy use PGP.

    BTW, the Google File System is pretty interesting. Data is stored in large clusters and never actually deleted until many clusters are marked as "deleted"...to prevent excessive fragmentation.

    This is similar(though not exactly) to every other file system on the planet. Do you really think M$ and Yahoo actually immediately hard delete your files? Indeed they aren't going to be gone from all the caches, soft deletions and backups, Google is simply being upfront about the things behind the scenes. if you're uncomfortable with that, use something else.
    Last edited by cirisme; Tue 6th Apr '04, 12:59pm.

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  • lucky_voyager
    replied
    Google sucks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean C
    replied
    So is yours Chris - you think google won't have a clear-cut and carefully worded privacy policy that must be readable prior to signing up for an account? It'll obviously highlight that the emails are held in a spiderable database etc..

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Gwynne
    replied
    Originally posted by Chen
    If I delete any of my posts on this forum, it wouldn't really be deleted and still stay in the database. So is vBulletin also violating European laws?
    For one, it's not my quote Chen. It's off CNN, the views of privacy groups.

    Secondly, no doubt by using a public forum you assumed the risk of having your posts displayed and to be read by anyone. Email is a private thing where no such risks are in practice, so your argument is both null and void.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chen
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Gwynne
    "Residual copies of email may remain on our systems, even after you have deleted them from your mailbox or after the termination of your account," Google's Gmail says in its privacy and terms of use sections.

    Google will also scan users' emails in order to paste appropriate advertising into messages. It may also link together "cookies", which contain personal information, from both email and Web use records.

    "This is not just 'buyer beware'. Consumers should be aware that there's a vast violation of European law occurring here," said Simon Davies, director of Privacy International, a citizens' group with offices in Britain and the United States.

    Europe's privacy protection laws are much stricter than those in the United States, where Google is based. European consumers, for example, have the right to retain control over their communications.

    "If a person deletes an email, he should be confident that email is actually deleted," said Maurice Westerling, co-founder of Bits of Freedom, another privacy interest group, based in the Netherlands.
    If I delete any of my posts on this forum, it wouldn't really be deleted and still stay in the database. So is vBulletin also violating European laws?

    Leave a comment:

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