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EU Announces Final MSFT Decision: "Near Monopoly;" New Windows Version Within 90 Days

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  • #46
    Just to add... straight from the w3.org web site.

    2001-12-19 Microsoft released Internet Explorer for the Mac 5.1, with bug fixes and improved performance. Supports full CSS1 and partial CSS2. (Mac IE 5 was the first browser to reach better than 99% support for CSS1, in March 2000.) (free; Mac OS 8, 9 & X)

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    • #47
      For one, that's the Mac IE (obviously). It says nothing about Windows IE.

      Secondly, it's a rather large fraction of CSS1, but it still does not support all of it. I had some great examples and detailed documentation of it, and if I really cared, I'd go and look for it. But I don't.

      Go to CSS sites such as CSSZenGarden in IE and then in a Gecko browser. You'll find that many of the CSS elements that appear in IE are dumbed down so IE can understand it. IE can't even handle the simple pseudo-drop down menu for style selection, so they had to simply print out the links. In a Gecko browser, you'll find a very nice, stylish mouse over drop down list. As a sidenote, the CSSZenGarden uses mainly CSS1 with very limited CSS2 elements.
      "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
      "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
      Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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      • #48
        I fail to see how the fact that Internet Explorer is compliant with the CSS1 standard or isn't compliant, really has any bearing on this thread which is about Windows Media Player being bundled.

        You have stated your opinion and it has been countered. Going round and round in a limited circle doesn't do anything for anybody. So either discuss the topic at hand or drop it. Continue arguing about the standards compliance of Internet Explorer and this will be closed.
        Translations provided by Google.

        Wayne Luke
        The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
        vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
        Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Wayne Luke
          I fail to see how the fact that Internet Explorer is compliant with the CSS1 standard or isn't compliant, really has any bearing on this thread which is about Windows Media Player being bundled.

          You have stated your opinion and it has been countered. Going round and round in a limited circle doesn't do anything for anybody. So either discuss the topic at hand or drop it. Continue arguing about the standards compliance of Internet Explorer and this will be closed.
          The removal of Windows Media Player strikes me as a little superfluous and it really isn't going to help much, IMO. If I'm using WMP, it doesn't affect you at all. If you're using it, it doesn't affect me.

          It's web browsers where this matters. If you're using IE, I must tailor to you because it's so deprived. If you're using it, it can affect me. All of IE's renderings methods are closed and will never be public. As long as Microsoft allows the Windows Media Video (WMV) format to be open and usable by other programs (it is, right? Winamp can play them), there's little problem with WMP being bundled with Windows.

          //Edit: All instances of "you" in this post are just "you" in general. They're not directed at Wayne.
          Prodded back on course a wee bit?
          Last edited by CeleronXT; Tue 30 Mar '04, 6:40pm.
          "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
          "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
          Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Wayne Luke
            Continue arguing about the standards compliance of Internet Explorer and this will be closed.
            No more arguements from me about that subject... it really wasn't an arguement, just discussing and disproving some misguided information that is floating around...

            Yep, the EU is on the wrong path here... not even sure how they even got so sidetracked... oh ya... it IS the EU... nevermind

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Wayne Luke
              Are they? Before Apple opened up their stores, I could go to a dozen or so local locations to purchase Macintosh hardware and software. Since they opened them, not a single one exists locally anymore. They either went out of business or stopped carrying Apple Products. For me it is a 45 mile drive to Glendale, California to purchase Macintosh hardware. I won't purchase a full computer online.
              If I remember correctly, a lot of those stores were going out of business before the Apple stores started popping up. I'd even bet that was one of the reasons Apple started opening up their own stores in the first place.

              Originally posted by merk
              So you're saying that Grandma who has never really cared about how the computer works or knows how to turn one on, shouldnt ask a sales person what she wants?

              Sorry, your logic might stand for a tech-savy user (who already dont ask salespeople for opinions), but not for a non-tech-savy user.
              My dad wasn't technically savvy when we bought our first computer (and he still isn't), but he was still smart enough to know that salespeople rarely give you what's best for your needs.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by MasterMac
                If I remember correctly, a lot of those stores were going out of business before the Apple stores started popping up. I'd even bet that was one of the reasons Apple started opening up their own stores in the first place.


                My dad wasn't technically savvy when we bought our first computer (and he still isn't), but he was still smart enough to know that salespeople rarely give you what's best for your needs.
                Your father will be an exception to the rule then. There are very few tech savy users who will be able to do what your father did.

                Sales people are a fact of life and just because you dont ask them for help doesnt mean anyone else doesnt

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by CeleronXT
                  Netscape added some necessary tags, sure. Some are being done away with only to be replaced with the same thing by a different name. (ie. <b> => <strong>, <i> => <em>, etc) So they decided to change the names in the standards. Big deal.
                  Side comment: <b> tags isn't being deprecated due to <strong> (or same for i and em). They both co-exist and have their own distinct purposes. I'd suggest you look up some information about those standards before being the big expert on them.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by okrogius
                    Side comment: <b> tags isn't being deprecated due to <strong> (or same for i and em). They both co-exist and have their own distinct purposes. I'd suggest you look up some information about those standards before being the big expert on them.
                    <b> was entirely removed from XHTML 1.0 Strict (maybe even HTML 4.01 Strict, but I wouldn't know, I only use XHTML) and on, IIRC. So technically, no, they do not co-exist.

                    //Edit Ahem.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML ::
                    Efforts of the web development community have led to a new thinking in the way a web document should be written; XHTML epitomizes this effort. Standards stress using markup which suggests the structure of the document, like headings, paragraphs, block quoted text, and tables, instead of using markup which is written for visual purposes only, like <font>, <b> (bold), and <i> (italics). Such presentational code has been removed from the HTML 4.01 Strict and XHTML specifications in favor of CSS solutions. CSS provides a way to separate the HTML structure from the content's presentation.
                    Last edited by CeleronXT; Wed 31 Mar '04, 12:30pm.
                    "63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs, you get 1 whacked with a service pack, now there's 63,005 bugs in the code."
                    "Before you critisize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you critisize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
                    Utopia Software - Current Software: Utopia News Pro (news management system)

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