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EU Announces Final MSFT Decision: "Near Monopoly;" New Windows Version Within 90 Days

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  • #16
    That's true Celeron that Apache does control quite a bit of the market here. However we are tech-savy people.

    What Microsoft has done is made it easier for people to do stuff and put it into an interface that's virtually idiot proof. As stated above, without an innovative OS, and a unified operating system, people will be all over the place adn the computer industry wouldn't be where it is today.
    ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
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    • #17
      Originally posted by CeleronXT
      Gecko is now completely standards compliant
      Wrong.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by merk
        Wrong.
        how?


        Microsoft- They monopolized the industry by using their name, any company that made a computer had to pay for a windows license on their machine, even if they installed linux. People wanted a windows machine, so they got one and never tried anything new. They've since dropped this practice... But after they got all the windows users.
        Last edited by psx-dude; Mon 29 Mar '04, 9:02pm.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by psx-dude
          any company that made a computer had to pay for a windows license on their machine
          I don't think Apple paid MS anything for every Mac that they made.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by nebby
            God, this is pathetic.

            If people don't like windows, you can get a cheaper OS by downloading/buying it in a store.

            Why do so many people hate windows, Life would be a lot more harder without them.
            Bingo..

            The general public is incompetent as a whole. They are too lazy and are not willing to learn new things. So many alternatives are available, yet they choose Windows and still rant about how "bad" it is.

            There is nothing wrong with Windows. It's the most common OS because it is good, and is better than its competition. If in actuality it was so bad, Linux would be number one, not Windows.
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            • #21
              Actually, a lot of people I know simply choose Windows because "that's what everyone else has", not because they did a comparison between that and OS X or Linux and came to the conclusion that Windows is better. Most of them never even look at alternatives such as Mac OS or Linux. Same thing happens in the browser market. Most people probably won't switch to other, better (IMHO) browsers like Firefox or Opera because IE is "what everyone else uses" and it is adequate enough for them just to browse the web. As long as IE is preloaded on every Windows computer, it doesn't have to be good, it just has to be adequate, which is unfortunate.
              Last edited by MasterMac; Tue 30 Mar '04, 12:35am.

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              • #22
                We're also forgetting the lazy factor and the don't know where to get it factor.

                Some people are just too lazy to go get another browser like Opera or FireFox whereas others don't even know where to get it. Others have technophobia
                ManagerJosh, Owner of 4 XenForo Licenses, 1 vBulletin Legacy License, 1 Internet Brands Suite License
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by psx-dude
                  how?
                  Read my quoted text again.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CeleronXT
                    IE's created far more "features" that are not approved by the standards at all. Netscape, as far as I can remember, only created one - blink.
                    Netscape "made up" many html tags that were forced upon us. Back then they had 90%+ of the browser market and if they came out with something everyone started to use them. Tags such as the "image align" tag, embed, "td align" tag, font size tag and even the "b" and "i" tags were just a few of the tags Netscape made up before they were standards.

                    As you notice many are now being done away with because they never should have been put into the standards in the first place.

                    I see nothing "ground breaking" with the latest Gecko release. Yes, they may be more standards compliant but then the "Netscape" line of broswers have been on the market for 5 years longer then IE... it only took them 15+ years to become compliant... IE still has 5 years to to get to that point if we want to compare timelines.

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                    • #25
                      As long as IE is preloaded on every Windows computer, it doesn't have to be good, it just has to be adequate, which is unfortunate
                      No, not quite, but this argument could be used for nearly everything.

                      Originally posted by MasterMac
                      Actually, a lot of people I know simply choose Windows because "that's what everyone else has", not because they did a comparison between that and OS X or Linux and came to the conclusion that Windows is better. Most of them never even look at alternatives such as Mac OS or Linux. Same thing happens in the browser market. Most people probably won't switch to other, better (IMHO) browsers like Firefox or Opera because IE is "what everyone else uses" and it is adequate enough for them just to browse the web.
                      Yes, that and like I said earlier - most people out there are not advanced users. Linix has a much higher learng curve, and most people are not willing to take the time to learn.
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                      • #26
                        In the beginning, Microsoft made a very shrewed decision. They made their OS available through many PC retailers. If Apple had done this back in 1984 with the Mac OS or IBM had done it with OS/2, the world would be a very different place. Now, Microsoft gets penalized for their business decisions and the mistakes of their OS competitors to not compete on the same level. Exclusivity contracts have nothing to do with these lawsuits, Bundling has nothing to do with these lawsuits. They are simply complaints by competitors because those competitors made bad business decisions to keep their development even more closed than Microsoft does now. Exclusivity and Bundling are the frail attempts of restraining intellectual property through outdated laws and ideals that impractical tools of enforcement.

                        In the EU judgement they specifically list a Monopoly in the server market. Microsoft has a 40% worldwide interest in the Server market. That is less than half and I am really curious as to how that constitutes a monopoly. They have more competition in the server market than in the desktop market. Even in the desktop market they have 10 times the competition that they had 10 years ago. One of the key components of a Monopoly, is that you have such a high barrier to market entry that new competition cannot begin. This is not the case with the Windows OS. In the last year at least 10 corporations have made a new foray into the OS market using the Linux Kernal and fresh ideas as their entry point. These companies have made contracts with computer companies and major retailers (like Wal-mart) to sell their products to the general population. Governments are using them and so forth.

                        There can't be a double standard in the determination of a monopoly. Either Microsoft prevents competition or it doesn't. If you follow the rise and fall of Netscape, it wasn't Internet Explorer that did them in. It was their own lack of development and their own company. Microsoft didn't start to really gain marketshare with IE until Navigator 5.0 was cancelled and it wasn't until 3 years later that any sort of update was released. The company doesn't exist now because the parent company lost 1.5 billion dollars on it and shut down the division. They didn't lose the money because of Microsoft, but because of the Apache group.

                        So people can hate Microsoft, but still use them. They can be jealous of a man who is successful and complain about his products. My suggestion to those people is if the product is so bad, use an alternative there are dozens out there. That way you can quit your incessant whining and the rest of us can get on with our lives without having to pay inflated prices that are needed to cover these ridiculous fines and court fees.
                        Translations provided by Google.

                        Wayne Luke
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MasterMac
                          Most of them never even look at alternatives such as Mac OS or Linux.
                          That is the fault of the Linux Companies and Apple, not Microsoft.

                          When the product is not available, how do you expect people to do a comparison? When there is no marketing materials how do you expect a person to do a comparison?

                          So as an average Joe, I want to buy a computer. So I go into Best Buy or a similar store. I look at what they have. Then I decide to look at software to see what I can do with my new computer. As I am doing that I see two linux packages. Redhat Enterprise and Suse Linux. They are Operating Systems but I don't want to pay for an OS. All the computers have Windows on them for free, except one which comes with a package called Lindows however the machine looks poorly constructed compared to the Compaqs, HPs and eMachines in their shiny cases. There are also a few packages of software for the Macintosh system, but they don't even carry those computers anymore. Instead the salesman tells you that you have to drive 45 miles in city traffic which can take hours to purchase an Apple.

                          In contrast there are hundreds of software packages for the Windows platform and many neat gadgets that you can add on to your Windows computer. In fact the boxes say "Made for Windows" with a bright sticker making it undeniable which system you want.

                          Because of a lack of variety, shelfspace and marketing both Apple and the Linux distributors are telling consumers that if they want a unique computer then purchase from them. However, if you want variety, ease of purchase and expandability, purchase a Windows based computer.

                          The average person is not going to purchase or research their first computer online, they are going to do it in the retail store. Sure they may see some iPod commercial or a commercial about switching to a Mac on television but those commercials do not tell you anything about the products themselves, just that they might make you look cool. However, the most successful products are not the ones with only the cool commercials, they are ones that secure shelfspace in the retail store by promising the retailer the ability to make a few dollars.
                          Translations provided by Google.

                          Wayne Luke
                          The Rabid Badger - a vBulletin Cloud demonstration site.
                          vBulletin 5 API - Full / Mobile
                          Vote for your favorite feature requests and the bugs you want to see fixed.

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                          • #28
                            AMEN, Wayne.

                            I can't say i've ever been a big windows/MS/gates fan, but i think that they are doing to him/them is utterly appauling.

                            All he's done wrong is make a few good business moves.

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                            • #29
                              Wayne pretty much summed up any thoughts that I had a hell of a lot more articulately than I ever could.

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                              • #30
                                the only reason i am not using linux or something like that is most programs/games i use run on windows and windows alone. I would switch if i had the chance to something else, the day people realise that making programs for another OS other than Windows will be the day i switch
                                Unlike most, I don't think I'm always right, if I'm wrong, CORRECT me.... providing you have some evidence

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