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Jelsoft's next competitor, Microsoft?

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  • Windows XP SP2 will add some nice features to IE. I sent microsoft an email telling them that if they don't have full standards compliance IE will lose market share in the future, I wonder if they are listening. Then again, since Microsoft is so big, it can take a very long time for things to get done even if they are in the pipeline.

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    • Originally posted by Faruk
      OH GOOD LORD!

      HTML Code:
      <h3><font face="arial"><font color="#008000">Free</font>TextBox</font></h3><p>type here...</p>
      Remind me to never say anything positive about their WYSIWYG thing again... *sighs*

      To all Microsoft-defenders: you're defending a company wherein a team of great programmers works hard on helping out the W3C to create good, solid internet Standards... but the rest of the entire company couldn't care less about those standards, and give them all a big "F**k you!" and just do whatever the hell they want to, oblivious to the noble goals of the first team.
      Now thats just being arrogant. While Microsoft employees might be creating this software, the 2 developers might not know too much about HTML and its standards, or might not care at this point in time until other parts of the forum are complete.

      Just because asp.net forums with the microsoft brand have a single nested tag error, it seems you would wage all out war over it.

      edit: I just got prompted by Shining- How do you know they even KNEW about this problem until it was brought up? Not everyone has the time to visit W3C validator every time they add or change code
      Last edited by merk; Fri 19 Mar '04, 4:27pm.

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      • Originally posted by Faruk
        Windows XP is not really that stable and reliable in my experience. Even with brand new hardware that we couldn't find anything wrong with, winXP would sometimes massively hog resources, crash, mess things up, etc.
        It can be stable as hell, but in my experience Win2K is still far more stable. Maybe I'm doing "unusual" things, but even those shouldn't kill Windows XP so badly, if you ask me.
        But, like I said, I'll admit that XP can be incredibly stable... for a Windows OS anyway... *cough* (sorry, I was just reminded of that Bash.org quote ^_^)
        That might be your opinion. It seems you must be doing some pretty non standard stuff that windows wasnt designed to handle, or you're doing it in a method that doesnt work as well as you want it to.

        And as for the HTML / XHTML stuff: excellent, I can only encourage that. It's not that I'm happy about MS / IE being so incredibly crap when it comes to the Internet Standards, nor do I like them to be or stay that way. If I could have my say, IE7 (the Longhorn one) would be just as good as Mozilla and Opera with XHTML, CSS (1, 2, 2.1 and 3) and XML. It would solve a lot of my frustrations, plus, all the Standards-compliant webdevelopers in the world would finally be happy about Microsoft and be able to focus more on creating innovation, rather than filling their blogs about IE-issue 198274687532178...

        Anyhoo, keep up that good work
        So you bash the **** out of Microsoft and then turn around and say they are working towards the goals you wish them to work towards? Not everyone can fix big issues overnight.

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        • Actually, I've seem to have spotted 1-2 more developers. Anyway, no one had brought up the HTML until I posted about it so they had no reason to work on it.

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          • Originally posted by sabret00the
            the age of IE is dead, unless they start churning out builds like Moz/FF/Opera/etc they've got no hope of competing and if they wait until the longhorn release IE will be an alternative.

            basically Mr Gates knows he ****ed up by not being so hands on, he would've made sure that IE couldn't load www.mozilla.org lol
            I know for one that most of the people i know dont even know what mozilla is, and dont care, ie does the job for when they want to go to google and research something or download a game patch.

            A nightly build wont change anything (ms has internal nightly builds anyway).

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            • Originally posted by SaN-DeeP
              you can't assume.
              What they plan
              I am not assuming
              MCSE, MVP, CCIE
              Microsoft Beta Team

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              • Originally posted by merk
                I know for one that most of the people i know dont even know what mozilla is, and dont care, ie does the job for when they want to go to google and research something or download a game patch.

                A nightly build wont change anything (ms has internal nightly builds anyway).
                not nightly builds but check how often IE release IE compared to lets say FB/FF 0.6,0.7,0.8

                and if they don't know moz i bet you they know what netscape it.

                also it's illogical business sense to not want the whole market.

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                • Originally posted by sabret00the
                  not nightly builds but check how often IE release IE compared to lets say FB/FF 0.6,0.7,0.8

                  and if they don't know moz i bet you they know what netscape it.

                  also it's illogical business sense to not want the whole market.
                  No large corporation will release software at the same speed as an opensource equivilant. There is no need, and causes more problems than it solves.

                  If microsoft kept releasing IE at the rate that FF is getting released i would have already changed to another browser that i didnt have to upgrade every 2 weeks.

                  Oh and they have the entire market.

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                  • lol, they don't have the whole market because anyone who 'surfs with a passion' is either using moz technology or opera

                    also it's not a matter of FF releasing every two weeks, it's a matter of IE's inability to release a regular product, with all the advancements made in web technology they're failing to keep up which is more than apparent. hell they're releasing Office mre regularly than they're releasing IE and the fact of the matter is, is that the reason they can't release regular IE's is because it's core is built so deeply into the operating system, making such changes on what should be a simple application is likely to cause havok with the stability of the whole OS.

                    (saying all that though, i actually enjoy XP (to a certain extent) and am a firm fan of MS as a business, they've made some bold and genius moves in thier existence, that's undisputable.)

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                    • Originally posted by merk
                      That might be your opinion. It seems you must be doing some pretty non standard stuff that windows wasnt designed to handle, or you're doing it in a method that doesnt work as well as you want it to.
                      Maybe, yeah:

                      Photoshop;
                      Winamp;
                      Editplus;
                      SmartFTP;
                      Trillian;
                      Pulse;
                      Mozilla;
                      Putty

                      Generally all those at the same time. If that's stuff that Windows was not designed to handle, well, that just makes me disappointed in Windows then.


                      Originally posted by merk
                      So you bash the **** out of Microsoft and then turn around and say they are working towards the goals you wish them to work towards? Not everyone can fix big issues overnight.
                      Ahem. I'm not bashing the h*ll out of Microsoft at all. A dozen or two people in this thread have been bashing MS without much in the sense of reasoning and all, I've simply pointed out facts that explain why I don't like Microsoft, all things considered.

                      And "not everyone can fix big issues overnight" - issues known for 6 months, XHTML/CSS things known for 4 years, and Microsoft's team of IE-developers still have no clue. That's not "overnight", that's 6 months to 4 YEARS! I'd say that gives me a PRETTY DAMN GOOD REASON to be complaining.


                      Originally posted by merk
                      If microsoft kept releasing IE at the rate that FF is getting released i would have already changed to another browser that i didnt have to upgrade every 2 weeks.
                      Actually, there are well over 5000 different versions of Internet Explorer being used worldwide. The only problem is that IE users don't as often upgrade to the newest version, whereas Mozilla / Firefox / Opera users do. More often anyway

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                      • Originally posted by AWS
                        I'll bite. Who did they get the NT kernel from? How about NTFS? Who developed SQL Server? Visual Studio? .Net framework? The list goes on.
                        For NT they hired someone knowledgable: Dave Cutler from VMS. See http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/doc...plemented.html and others sites...
                        SQL server is based on Sybase code (joint venture with Sybase)

                        More than 10 years experience in building communities!
                        Consulting for migration, import, newsletter delivery, stats, adserver, choosing the right software.

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                        • For NT they hired people who become part of the Windows NT team and brought people from other projects such as 9x to work on it.

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                          • Exactly what I said
                            More than 10 years experience in building communities!
                            Consulting for migration, import, newsletter delivery, stats, adserver, choosing the right software.

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                            • Originally posted by Chris Stewart
                              Knowing ASP.NET like I do, I would be willing to bet their using the hell out of the caching features .NET offers
                              Why wouldn't they?

                              Originally posted by Christine
                              In addition to its size limitations, it has no interface, and does not come with SQL management tools. You can, however, purchase MS SQL developer upgrade and take the tools off of it and load them.
                              You don't need to buy anything. The tools come in the SQL Server evaluation download and do not expire

                              Sean
                              SitePoint Advisor (seanf)
                              http://sitepointforums.com
                              Harry Potter

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by walter
                                Exactly what I said
                                Yeah but you seemed to have been saying that Microsoft brought NT from someone when they had their own developers code it.

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