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  • #76
    Originally posted by merk
    What about minesweeper?!?!

    Last time i checked, most of the office suite is theres, word, excel, powerpoint, access, infopath, onenote, outlook, etc.

    Visio has been developed better than the previous company did.

    Though it still needs a few more versions
    When and where did you check? Most of their stuff was from other companies they bought up and turned into in-house product development teams...

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Faruk
      When and where did you check? Most of their stuff was from other companies they bought up and turned into in-house product development teams...
      Who cares? To be honest - if someone could do it better than Microsoft did it, you would be talking about them right now. Its not just about building a better mousetrap, that is maybe one tenth of it, and Microsoft did everything else better than everybody else for so long that one day it tourned out that their mousetrap was actually better than anything anyone else had also. But hey, I am partial to more or less having one platform to worry about, which would not have been the way of the world if Apple and IBM had their way back in the 80s.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Faruk
        *grins*

        Funny, but not exactly useful, cos there's no validity
        Support costs, time troubleshooting issues, SCO's stolen code. The costs add up over time. Much higher than Window's costs.

        Originally posted by Xabbu
        Ugh.. I always feel so dirty after visiting a microsoft site.

        So many free alternatives out there.. who would want to spend the money needed to get something like that running.. hmm.. even with the ongoing costs of owning vB its not worth having to shell out for all of MS's crap like IIS, Winblows and SQL server..

        I need to take a bath now.. ick.
        Considering that Microsoft's software (Windows 2003 Server, IIS6, ASP.NET, MS SQL Server, Office, Windows XP, and so on) is currently mopping the floor with Open Source both performance, security and TCO wise, there isn't much to say in favor of your ignorant opinion.

        Originally posted by Lurk
        vBulletin RULES...

        vBulletin ALL THE WAY!!!

        vB is THE best forum software out there...
        For now but Microsoft might one day change that.

        Originally posted by djnoz
        Comes as a big surprise to me.. most of the gurus I know agree that Linux is the industry standard... you got a source to back that up?

        As far as that ASP forum goes, it's just another drop in the bucket. Jelsoft happen to own half the water in that bucket so who cares? It doesn't appear to be as feature-rich as vBulletin, neither does it appear to have a particularly large userbase. (that might change though)

        I don't think it's a threat to Jelsoft -- if this software takes off, it'll just fill a niche market. vB is the industry standard and it will take a lot to change that.
        It is not an ASP forum, it is an ASP.NET forum. There is a big difference between the two.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Shining Arcanine
          Support costs, time troubleshooting issues, SCO's stolen code. The costs add up over time. Much higher than Window's costs.
          You have no proof that the code was stolen.

          Considering that Microsoft's software (Windows 2003 Server, IIS6, ASP.NET, MS SQL Server, Office, Windows XP, and so on) is currently mopping the floor with Open Source both performance, security and TCO wise, there isn't much to say in favor of your ignorant opinion.
          Lots will disagree on the security issues. Though i dont particually care if an email worm infects windows machines, lots of linux based users attack windows for it. Its the general public for being dumbasses that causes infections like that, not windows.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Faruk
            When and where did you check? Most of their stuff was from other companies they bought up and turned into in-house product development teams...
            Id like to know of press releases or media releases that say otherwise, because as far as im concerned (and mainly because they have been around for a long time)- word, excel and access were developed inhouse.

            I dont see most of their stuff being from other companies.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Zecherieh
              Who cares? To be honest - if someone could do it better than Microsoft did it, you would be talking about them right now. Its not just about building a better mousetrap, that is maybe one tenth of it, and Microsoft did everything else better than everybody else for so long that one day it tourned out that their mousetrap was actually better than anything anyone else had also. But hey, I am partial to more or less having one platform to worry about, which would not have been the way of the world if Apple and IBM had their way back in the 80s.
              Not really true.

              My main concern with Microsoft is the fact that they lie too much. They make TONS of claims to draw in crowds, but half the time it's just not true.

              I use Windows myself, true enough, but not so much by choice rather than by necessity. I'd be using Debian -> ion if I could, but I have to use Photoshop a lot (we don't have Crossover, but it may be worth trying that now that it seems to be worthwhile), and additionally, playing PC games (for personal entertainment but also for reviewing them) on linux is too troublesome / impossible in most cases. Very regrettable, for me, because I've grown quite tired of Windows' lack of efficiency, stability and reliability. Alas...

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Shining Arcanine
                Support costs, time troubleshooting issues, SCO's stolen code. The costs add up over time. Much higher than Window's costs.
                No support costs for us;
                No troubleshooting issues;
                @ SCO comment;

                So far we're doing just fine for $0, which would've been far more with Windows. Additionally, you're giving a really skewed perspective by pretending that Microsoft doesn't charge you for support or troubleshooting. And good god people, Windows licenses are not free, why are you all continually trying to say that they are? Utter nonsense that only makes you look like a fool

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by merk
                  Id like to know of press releases or media releases that say otherwise, because as far as im concerned (and mainly because they have been around for a long time)- word, excel and access were developed inhouse.

                  I dont see most of their stuff being from other companies.
                  I'll ask Vinz about it today, I don't know what his sources are but I don't think you should be expecting press releases about such things from Microsoft themselves. Bad marketing stuff, and they know better than that

                  I'll ask about it.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Faruk
                    I'll ask Vinz about it today, I don't know what his sources are but I don't think you should be expecting press releases about such things from Microsoft themselves. Bad marketing stuff, and they know better than that

                    I'll ask about it.
                    Okay, I asked him. He didn't remember by head what products exactly weren't originally developed by MS, except for these:

                    SQL server
                    Access (possibly anyway, most likely based on something developed earlier by non-MS)
                    Frontpage

                    and also some services, like Hotmail (nope, Hotmail wasn't Microsoft's at first).

                    There weren't any Microsoft press-releases about any of this, as far as he knew, but it was from other newssites (long long ago), so you could technically dig it up, still. In old archives on some newssites.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Faruk
                      Okay, I asked him. He didn't remember by head what products exactly weren't originally developed by MS, except for these:

                      SQL server
                      Access (possibly anyway, most likely based on something developed earlier by non-MS)
                      Frontpage

                      and also some services, like Hotmail (nope, Hotmail wasn't Microsoft's at first).

                      There weren't any Microsoft press-releases about any of this, as far as he knew, but it was from other newssites (long long ago), so you could technically dig it up, still. In old archives on some newssites.
                      So while you have no proof, you expect me to believe it ?

                      Access - The last book i purchased, has a list of major features in every access release. It was a microsoft product from day one.

                      I dont really care about who wrote SQL server initially - it works schmick now regardless, and frontpage, woohoo.

                      Word Excel and powerpoint are MS products, and they are some of the best applications i use today. (you couldnt tell me you could create an entire payroll module for a company in staroffice )

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Faruk
                        No support costs for us;
                        No troubleshooting issues;
                        @ SCO comment;

                        So far we're doing just fine for $0, which would've been far more with Windows. Additionally, you're giving a really skewed perspective by pretending that Microsoft doesn't charge you for support or troubleshooting. And good god people, Windows licenses are not free, why are you all continually trying to say that they are? Utter nonsense that only makes you look like a fool
                        You're making out that linux isnt free either, and in most circumstances, isnt. Windows might not be free, but in an instance that you brough up (a hosting company), they would be paying a support licence that covers everything in one fee. Its not as expensive to run windows as you make out.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Faruk
                          Okay, I asked him. He didn't remember by head what products exactly weren't originally developed by MS, except for these:

                          SQL server
                          Access (possibly anyway, most likely based on something developed earlier by non-MS)
                          Frontpage

                          and also some services, like Hotmail (nope, Hotmail wasn't Microsoft's at first).

                          There weren't any Microsoft press-releases about any of this, as far as he knew, but it was from other newssites (long long ago), so you could technically dig it up, still. In old archives on some newssites.
                          hotmail belonged to 3 english guys i think it was, and i don't think they retained anything after the sale either so must be kicking themselves.

                          although i've been known to be totally wrong

                          btw not to be funny guys but does it really matter, you're just dragging the thread off-topic, this is worse than jet-lag in the other interesting thread!

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            The asp.net forums aren't owned by Microsoft from what I can tell of it. One of the developers is actually a guy I know casually and whom acts as a moderator on my own forum. I was stunned to see his name listed there; I never had given him enough credit to be that good at coding. Figured he was all talk.

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                            • #89
                              i still prefer their WYSIWYG especially after taking a look here
                              http://www.revjon.com/ftb/

                              being able to switch between WYSIWYG and HTML is exactly what vB needs althugh, replace HTML with vBcode

                              also it's alot more pleasing on the eye, but no doubt someone will get excited and mess with the look of the vB one sooner or later.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by AWS
                                I'll bite. Who did they get the NT kernel from? How about NTFS? Who developed SQL Server? Visual Studio? .Net framework? The list goes on.

                                Faruk, what is your primary OS? The OS you have installed on your primary box and the one you use everyday?
                                Remember the quote from that guy who used to work for Microsoft as part of the NT kernel development team, and eventually quit there and started developing airplane computers? It was something like "If we would be using the Microsoft kernel for our onboard computers, we wouldn't have any planes in the air anymore."

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